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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:17 pm 
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JT-Y wrote:
Fan Favourite is interesting, whilst he's on the pitch he grants +1 Fame, so he's useful on Kick Off stuff which he can even out or give you a good advantage on. Aside from that, he's a git who should help interfere with Elven concentration.

I think he's useful and a bit different. And it's nice to see Fan Favourite actually do something. Remember after the CRP was edited to be printer friendly and the Majors were removed, it was a dead skill that no one had and no one could gain. Before that, or if you had the full Icepelt version, it could only be gained if you played the Spike! Magazine major.
I think it's good to see it used in a place that makes sense. Goblins are rowdy little buggers, it fits their character that they'd love to see a guy on the pitch banging a drum or playing the squig pipes, following throwers around and putting them off their game. Stuff like that.

That make work in a leagues, but in tournaments, at least me, I will prefer safe that 30k to expend in bribes or Star Players

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:25 pm 
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dreamscreator wrote:
Milo wrote:
What goblin in their right mind would use a knife to stab someone when there are CHAINSAWS about? Sorry, but stabbing with a goblin is completely out of character. Only a hobgoblin or dark elf could be that sneaky.

One who wants to dodge on a 3+ and stab instead to dodge in a 6+ and use the chainsaw with a 2+ ;)


A chainsaw is the ultimate can opener. Use it often enough and you'll never need to dodge. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Might very well be that the fan favourite becomes very desireable to make one of the stadium effects more reliable...

Looks like an interesting package so far!


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:29 pm 
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frogboy wrote:
Poor Ogres :(

They have Grak and Crumbleberry, but nobody accept they in the tournaments :P

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:29 pm 
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dreamscreator wrote:
Maybe we will have new SW as Star Players


Yea, I'd love to see some totally different SW as Star Players. I'm not totally familiar with Goblins, but it always seemed weird to me that their Star Players were regurgitated SWs. So they get two Bombers, etc? I'd rather see some completely different Star Players that play for the Goblin team(s).

The roster looks pretty interesting, and again a few changes but still staying pretty true to what we've seen in the past. I like that. What I really want to see is a new Ooligan and Pogoer mini. I was a bit skeptical about the Goblin minis from the pics I had seen earlier, but having just put together the Troll...I found that I actually liked the little Goblin that the Troll is holding in his hand. So I have a feeling I will like the other minis on the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Milo wrote:
JT-Y wrote:
Fan Favourite is interesting, whilst he's on the pitch he grants +1 Fame, so he's useful on Kick Off stuff which he can even out or give you a good advantage on. Aside from that, he's a git who should help interfere with Elven concentration.

I think it's good to see it used in a place that makes sense. Goblins are rowdy little buggers, it fits their character that they'd love to see a guy on the pitch banging a drum or playing the squig pipes, following throwers around and putting them off their game. Stuff like that.


He's like an on-field mascot, or hype man. No one seems to have mentioned the Disturbing Presence listed on that picture.


That's because its worthless unless its spammed across a team, 4 minimum. On 1 opponent you just stand 4 squares away when doing a pass etc.... I get the thinking - 'Goblins struggle against elves'. But this ain't gonna help against any one that knows how to play. sorry :|

Milo wrote:
garion wrote:
shame sneaky git skill hasn't been reworked :(

Looks like my goblin roster ain't changing then.

2 trolls 1 chainsaw , 1 fanatic, the rest goblins.

seems the roster change is only really going to suit TT resurrection tournaments. For leagues you're better off leaving all the toys at home and abusing bribes.


To each their own. I like to see it as giving Goblin coaches more options and opportunities. For instance, if you take a Fan Favourite, you get +1 to not just Pitch Invasion and Thrown Rock rolls (which are very quintessentially Gobliny), but also Brilliant Coaching and Cheering Fans, which have the potential to earn you several additional rerolls per game, especially if combined with cheerleaders and assistant coaches and... well, I shouldn't say any more yet. That might mean you could go without so many TRRs on your roster, which in turn reduces your team value and gives you more inducements.

Lots of people like Bombs and Pogos as well, and I suspect the Doom Diver would fall into that category too. It certainly has the potential to improve an aerial attack. But your mileage may vary.


Yeah I get the usage of Fan Favourite, I mentioned it earlier in the thread. But he's not worth his TV. He's too expensive and Disturbing Presence just adds bloat. if he was 50k no DP I would take him. Though in a tournament setting he will probably get some use. As long as he can be bought and you can still max out on bribes. Goblins best chance of winning games is reducing their TV as much as possible. And getting as many inducements as you can. bribes, ripper and an addition chainsaw is often the best way to go. It seems like a real missed opportunity here.

In the end it makes no difference to me. So its not bad. The changes just arent good. To me they are just moot.

It seems like this roster redesign missed the problems with CRP Goblin teams -
*That the team only gets worse the more it plays games - because FF adds to TV, skills add to TV, which means you have to fire goblins, causing you to miss out on inducements.
* That goblins, unlike flings and underworld have no "safe first move" of a turn.eg. goblins once all marked have no big guy that can block with rr, 3+ dodges with rr are big risks for a first move. Flings have trees who can rr, ogres have ogres who can rr, underworld have st3 block players.
* They have very little answer for Blodged up teams

The answer for fixing all of these problems is remove Loner from Trolls. Giving the team Big guys worth skilling up (like halflings can) makes the team worth developing, otherwise your just better off playing the inducement game, and for me the aim should be to develop your team, not abuse inducements and fire players as soon as they skill.

Also a Special Rule called "Sneaky Gits" while there is a skill called "Sneaky Git" is poor design. I know its the minutiae, but as I have said a few times this keeps going wrong. Why not call the special rule "Dirty Cheats", "Little Gits", "Cheating Gitz", "Underhand Tactics" etc...

That final quote is very interesting and cryptic though. "It has the potential to improve an aerial attack, but your mileage may vary."
sounds like there are clues there. So improve an aerial attack - we've all thrown goblins at a cage before. mileage may vary some sort of d6 roll for distance.
Whatever we read in to this, it sounds like Doom Diver may be more of a weapon than a TTM TD aide.


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:58 pm 
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faust_33 wrote:
Yea, I'd love to see some totally different SW as Star Players. I'm not totally familiar with Goblins, but it always seemed weird to me that their Star Players were regurgitated SWs. So they get two Bombers, etc? I'd rather see some completely different Star Players that play for the Goblin team(s).


Actually, the opposite is true. Originally the Stars were the only secret weapons. Later revisions of the team from the BBRC added generic secret weapons to the roster. The ability to add skills to the secret weapon players (like HMP to a bommer) makes them extra interesting.

faust_33 wrote:
The roster looks pretty interesting, and again a few changes but still staying pretty true to what we've seen in the past. I like that. What I really want to see is a new Ooligan and Pogoer mini. I was a bit skeptical about the Goblin minis from the pics I had seen earlier, but having just put together the Troll...I found that I actually liked the little Goblin that the Troll is holding in his hand. So I have a feeling I will like the other minis on the team.


Glad to hear you like the roster. I'm personally using a Night Goblin Squig Herder for my 'Ooligan (though I can't decide between the one with the cymbals or the one with the bagpipes -- both just seem so gobliny). I'm curious to see what the other three SW look like myself. It's worth noting that this isn't the first appearance of Goblin 'Ooligans in Blood Bowl -- there are 2nd Ed minis produced for them, too, but I think this is the first time they've had their own rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:59 pm 
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garion wrote:
That final quote is very interesting and cryptic though. "It has the potential to improve an aerial attack, but your mileage may vary."
sounds like there are clues there. So improve an aerial attack - we've all thrown goblins at a cage before. mileage may vary some sort of d6 roll for distance.
Whatever we read in to this, it sounds like Doom Diver may be more of a weapon than a TTM TD aide.


I try to be cryptic whenever possible. There's more than one type of aerial attack.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Milo wrote:
Only a hobgoblin or dark elf could be that sneaky.


We so need a pure hobgoblin team :orc:

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Milo wrote:
I try to be cryptic whenever possible. There's more than one type of aerial attack.

That's sound interesting. Goblins need more offensive and defensive options.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Milo wrote:
faust_33 wrote:
The roster looks pretty interesting, and again a few changes but still staying pretty true to what we've seen in the past. I like that. What I really want to see is a new Ooligan and Pogoer mini. I was a bit skeptical about the Goblin minis from the pics I had seen earlier, but having just put together the Troll...I found that I actually liked the little Goblin that the Troll is holding in his hand. So I have a feeling I will like the other minis on the team.


Glad to hear you like the roster. I'm personally using a Night Goblin Squig Herder for my 'Ooligan (though I can't decide between the one with the cymbals or the one with the bagpipes -- both just seem so gobliny). I'm curious to see what the other three SW look like myself. It's worth noting that this isn't the first appearance of Goblin 'Ooligans in Blood Bowl -- there are 2nd Ed minis produced for them, too, but I think this is the first time they've had their own rules.


Ah, I've seen the old Goblin Ooligan minis pop up on Ebay. I always thought they were some sort of sideline/fan figure.

Thanks for the background on the Secret Weapons as well. I came to Blood Bowl late, so I only know a little of 3rd and mostly CRP.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:55 pm 
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faust_33 wrote:
I'm not totally familiar with Goblins, but it always seemed weird to me that their Star Players were regurgitated SWs.
As far as I can remember, Goblins, much like Halflings, only had standard Goblins on their roster and SW only were available through star players.
Later they were added to give the Goblins a boost but since the SW stars play for other teams too, you couldn't simply remove them from the game.

Not sure if I like the new positions, will see when Swoop-skill is revealed.


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:16 pm 
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garion wrote:
Milo wrote:
He's like an on-field mascot, or hype man. No one seems to have mentioned the Disturbing Presence listed on that picture.
That's because its worthless unless its spammed across a team, 4 minimum. On 1 opponent you just stand 4 squares away when doing a pass etc.... I get the thinking - 'Goblins struggle against elves'. But this ain't gonna help against any one that knows how to play. sorry :|

It is not worthless it will occasionally help but it not a reliable skill on a single player. You would never spend a skill slot as it is not worth 20k.

With the new rules allowing teams to re-buy Fan Factor when they re-draft there is the possibility of trying to use the Ooligan to get +3 Fame every game. I am not sure it would be effective but could be interesting to try.


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:53 pm 
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garion wrote:
To me they are just moot.


Nah, those are the halfling changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Goblins are my favorite team. I'm willing to give this new roster a go.

What really burns me is that the box only comes with 12 goblins - no weapons, no trolls, no Ooligan, no Doom Diver. Oh wait - GW is making a 4-gob box as well! Sweet! That must mean some weapons are in there...

Nope. 4 more goblins.

In some ways, GW is doing some really fun things with BB and in other ways they have no idea what they are doing. Where are the weapons/Ooligan/Diver minis? And do they expect us to buy two of those overly complicated, poorly posed Trolls that are permanently stuck doing something they rarely do?

How did GW not plan ahead for this to MAKE MONEY? Why put out a new, tweaked (maybe fun!) roster, then make a BOX OF LINEMAN ONLY to go with it?

GW is mixing a few fun ideas with a whole lot of not knowing what they are doing. Ridiculous.

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