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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:18 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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Its alright Sun Devil one of the two new players is pretty pointless, the other assuming Swoop is good, or at least good fun. You can probably get a 4th edition wfb doom diver on ebay for a couple of dollars, like this - www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Fantasy-AoS- ... SwB-1YpyF0

I hope an errata comes out quickly, say day 1, which says- "DP was meant to be Dirty Player not disturbing presence. sorry for the mix up"

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:35 pm 
Emerging Star
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There's also Brick and Grotty from Impact:
http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.php?option=resinbigguys_profile&id=TC_OGBG

I have them, and thought they might make a decent proxy for Grak and Crumbleberry, if I ever wanted to try them out.

Browsing Impact's site, looks like there are some decent SWs by Willy as well. Including a goblin dressed up in a bird outfit "Willy Goblin Bird", which would be a funny Doom Diver.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Wow, what a let down. The 'ooligan is out right garbage in his current form, 30k on two exceptionally situational skills are not worth it at all and while there's a nice novelty factor it does nothing other than add another worthless 0-1 player to a roster that's bloated already with crud.

Doom Diver, without seeing what Swoop does it's hard to tell, but one thing to note is that he doesn't come with dodge so the skill is costing about 30k, better be damned good to be worth the TV bloat.

With the greatest of respect, I think if the guys that designed these two thought they were anything more than novelty fluff for the team they need to go back to the drawing board.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:37 pm 
Legend
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sann0638 wrote:
garion wrote:
To me they are just moot.


Nah, those are the halfling changes.


Kikikiki :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:57 pm 
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ForgeWorld has already announced a blister of Goblin Special Weapons that should be out by Warhammer Fest at the end of the month and in General Release later. It will have the Bomma, Chainsaw and Fanatic. If we are lucky, they will "only" be about $25-$30, but not holding my breath. I will only assume some time later will be released the 2nd blister containing the Pogoer, Doom Diver and 'Ooligan.

Unfortunately, this is GW's modus operandi. Except for the all the 2nd edition teams and the 5th edition human team, which contained an entire 16 player team with all positionals, GW will bundle things in a similar manner as they always have. We are "lucky" they are bundling the extra goblins in groups of Four for Ork teams and will compliment the Underworld team for those that have the extra Skaven left over after buying multiple boxes.

Me, I am glad I don't need anything from GW / Forgeworld having at least one of every team, already, and can pick and choose what I want to buy instead of NEEDING to buy. The advantage of playing BB for the last 30 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:09 pm 
Legend
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Stout Youngblood wrote:
Me, I am glad I don't need anything from GW / Forgeworld ..., and can pick and choose what I want to buy instead of NEEDING to buy. The advantage of playing BB for the last 30 years.


Sing it, Brother! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:05 am 
Legend
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I think they walked the line pretty well here.
First comment I heard when 2 new SWs were hinted was "great, more ways to have your team sent off".
So I think non-SWs were a good choice.

I think Fan Favourite is a pretty useful skill. And Doom Diver will hopefully be fun.

Will this makes Gobbos viable? Hell no.
But remember, the veteran community is dead set against buffing tier 3 teams. Sucky teams is what makes BB a great game. So in this instance they managed to not step on any toes.

Personally I'm glad they've managed to buff both gobbos and Flings :orc:
Even if it is just a little.
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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:00 am 
Legend
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plasmoid wrote:
Will this makes Gobbos viable? Hell no.
But remember, the veteran community is dead set against buffing tier 3 teams. Sucky teams is what makes BB a great game. So in this instance they managed to not step on any toes.


I don't think we know what we want. GW come up with overpowered rules for a limited edition pair of models and people are outraged and site this as evidence they have no clue and don't care about the game.

They give one of the weakest teams goblins a couple of extra weapons (one of which is a bit rubbish and the other unknown right now) that are entirely optional and don't change anything else and people moan that this isn't enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:27 am 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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spubbbba wrote:
I don't think we know what we want. GW come up with overpowered rules for a limited edition pair of models and people are outraged and site this as evidence they have no clue and don't care about the game.

They give one of the weakest teams goblins a couple of extra weapons (one of which is a bit rubbish and the other unknown right now) that are entirely optional and don't change anything else and people moan that this isn't enough.


I don't think that's what people are complaining about really. People just want usable players and rules. The Grak and Cumbleberry stuff was poor because the price was wrong and the skill card was missing loner. It was just sloppy from top to bottom. It was also stated that this is an optional rule only not a core one. So the really is not a biggie. Its just poor design and sloppy.

This time we get Goblins with hooligan who no one in their right mind will take if they want build a competitive goblin team, a team with a chance of winning. So why even bother adding him to the roster? 30k is very big bloat on a team that thrives by keeping its TV down. It does show a real lack of understanding of how people play with this team really. 50k remove disturbing presence and you have a player worth taking, albeit a dull one. I'm still not totally happy with the hooligan being on a sports team either if I'm totally honest. But I could over look that if he had solid rules.

Another thing is calling the cheap bribes rule from CRP 'Sneaky Gits'. Its just very sloppy, not hugely important, just careless having 2 rules with the same name.

I get that the team is tier 3. I for one am a big advocate of the tiers, and disliked the narrowing of the tiers concept. The Loner removal from Trolls though is such a no brainer. We are now stuck with Goblins for another generation that have no "safe" first move of a turn. This would not drag them out of the tier 3 bin. It would just make the roster a little less painful to play.

I dunno.... I'm just very disappointed. Especially after many assurances that sloppy mistakes aren't going to be made this time, everything has been checked and re-checked etc...

Hopefully I am wrong overall once the rest of the book comes out. The stadium rules could be great if done properly. Doom Diver might be loads of fun and serve a purpose. I'll stay positive for the rest until its released.


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:20 am 
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True, a lot of the changes feel like changes to justify a new edition.


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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:31 am 
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spubbbba wrote:
I don't think we know what we want. GW come up with overpowered rules for a limited edition pair of models and people are outraged and site this as evidence they have no clue and don't care about the game.

First said that I love play with goblins. And what I want is more balance between ALL teams. How many NAF tournaments has been win by stunty teams, or even Vampires, Underworld, Chaos Pact, etc. Would be easy try to balance all the teams a bit more with a small changes or with new positional.

I have any problem with the optional crazy things, there are optional. The core of the rules remain the same, that is good in my opinion. The real change could be the teams rosters but looks that is going to be pretty the same. So what is the real difference between the new BB and the old one a part of the new minis? I don't feel that is a real improve of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:41 am 
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dreamscreator wrote:
spubbbba wrote:
I don't think we know what we want. GW come up with overpowered rules for a limited edition pair of models and people are outraged and site this as evidence they have no clue and don't care about the game.

First said that I love play with goblins. And what I want is more balance between ALL teams. How many NAF tournaments has been win by stunty teams, or even Vampires, Underworld, Chaos Pact, etc. Would be easy try to balance all the teams a bit more with a small changes or with new positional.

Therein lies the issue. There are plenty of experienced folks who will want to maintain the tiers as they stand and not make all teams equal, with others not wanting change at all. That's where the "I don't think we know what we want" (as a community of experienced players) comes directly into play.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:41 am 
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garion wrote:
spubbbba wrote:
I don't think we know what we want. GW come up with overpowered rules for a limited edition pair of models and people are outraged and site this as evidence they have no clue and don't care about the game.

They give one of the weakest teams goblins a couple of extra weapons (one of which is a bit rubbish and the other unknown right now) that are entirely optional and don't change anything else and people moan that this isn't enough.


This time we get Goblins with hooligan who no one in their right mind will take if they want build a competitive goblin team, a team with a chance of winning. So why even bother adding him to the roster? 30k is very big bloat on a team that thrives by keeping its TV down. It does show a real lack of understanding of how people play with this team really. 50k remove disturbing presence and you have a player worth taking, albeit a dull one. I'm still not totally happy with the hooligan being on a sports team either if I'm totally honest. But I could over look that if he had solid rules.

Another thing is calling the cheap bribes rule from CRP 'Sneaky Gits'. Its just very sloppy, not hugely important, just careless having 2 rules with the same name.

I get that the team is tier 3. I for one am a big advocate of the tiers, and disliked the narrowing of the tiers concept. The Loner removal from Trolls though is such a no brainer. We are now stuck with Goblins for another generation that have no "safe" first move of a turn. This would not drag them out of the tier 3 bin. It would just make the roster a little less painful to play.


Not every Goblin coach aims for a "competitive" goblin team, if that's even a thing. Nothing has been removed from the Goblin roster, so if you want to play them without the 'Ooligan, go for it! If GW had made the team significantly better during this release, you know there would have been just as many people insisting that GW was "power-creeping" just to sell miniatures. You know they would have. I've seen posts like that in this very forum. These changes are:

a) relatively minor in terms of the overall power level of the team,
b) entirely in keeping with the background and concept of the Goblin team, which is easily summarized as "wacky and wild but not very good", and
c) give the Goblin coach some other possibilities to play with.

You don't care for the 'Ooligan, fair enough. Yet I think some coaches would enjoy having a Pass Blocking Disturbing Presence with Dodge and Stunty, now only 6 SPPs away. Maybe you'll add one just because you love the model, or maybe another coach will, even if it doesn't substantially improve his team. Not everyone plays BB for the same reasons. Yeesh.

I can understand why you'd want to remove Loner. That would have made Goblins a much better roster. But that wasn't the intent.

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Last edited by Milo on Wed May 17, 2017 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:43 am 
Super Star
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mawph wrote:
Therein lies the issue. There are plenty of experienced folks who will want to maintain the tiers as they stand and not make all teams equal, with others not wanting change at all. That's where the "I don't think we know what we want" (as a community of experienced players) comes directly into play.


I think the problem is that the community of experienced players knows EXACTLY what they want, and they want approximately as many DIFFERENT things are there are coaches in that community.

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 Post subject: Re: Goblin Roster DZ2
 Post Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:48 am 
Super Star
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plasmoid wrote:
I think they walked the line pretty well here.
First comment I heard when 2 new SWs were hinted was "great, more ways to have your team sent off".
So I think non-SWs were a good choice.

I think Fan Favourite is a pretty useful skill. And Doom Diver will hopefully be fun.

Will this makes Gobbos viable? Hell no.
But remember, the veteran community is dead set against buffing tier 3 teams. Sucky teams is what makes BB a great game. So in this instance they managed to not step on any toes.

Personally I'm glad they've managed to buff both gobbos and Flings :orc:
Even if it is just a little.


Glad to hear you're in favor of the changes, Martin. I think the Doom Diver is definitely the more impactful of the two, but it's nice to see Fan Favourite back in the game again, and the 'Ooligan offers lots of interesting modeling and game play options. GW did not intend to buff either Halflings or Goblins out of their tier. Unfortunately, it seems there are too damn many toes around to not step on a few here and there.

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