Talk Fantasy Football

JT-Y wrote:
The miniatures in Spike! Journal? They're the Chaos Chosen team. Or do you mean what the Stars are?

A friend saw the twitch but couldnt hear it. He told me that while Andy had the book in his hands, he showed a page at the end of spike! with a lot of miniatures of star players (not the new chaos team), but he couldnt see them well

So i dont know if he is wrong and only saw the new chaos team miniatures, or if those miniatures were conversions or new models of the chaos star players.


and since you are here, can you tell us something about realeases of star players miniatures? long ago without news of them.
Maybe some surprise on May 12 :D?

Thanks a lot!!!!


PD. I really love the nurgle frog star player.

Jip wrote:I missed it too, but this seems to be a pretty good summary, according to those who did watch it.

Thanks Jip! Just read through that. Lots of interesting stuff there! I'm excited.

I like the idea of a SPIKE! Journal coming out with each new team. Will give new players more ideas on how to use them and a perfect place for fluff. The addition of a comic by Pete Knifton, is just gravy on top! My only hope is that they maintain a core rulebook with all the rules, so you don't have to tote around 20+ books.

"Chaos Roster - The roster has not changed. It’s not their intent to make changes to their rosters, but they may add the odd positional here or there, e.g., Goblins."

Goblins on a Chaos Roster? Maybe I'm the only one, but that sounds really weird to me. Would also alter their play style quite a bit.

Chaos Star Players - Wow, just wow! All my favorites returned and then some. Pretty cool to hear that Bilerot and Withergrasp are getting revamped. Can't wait to see some of the minis for these. And I bet everyone wants to get their hands on a Gobbler Grimlich. Coolest new star player since Glart Smashrip (Sr).

Frog spell and Chaos Sorcerers - nice!

Chaos Renegades dice, yes!

I guess things have been successful if their working team has gone from 2 people to 7. That's pretty awesome!

The only miniatures in Spike! Journal are the Chaos Chosen team, you'll have to wait a while longer to see the new Star Player models I'm afraid, but they are being worked on and there's art for all of them.

faust_33 wrote:
"Chaos Roster - The roster has not changed. It’s not their intent to make changes to their rosters, but they may add the odd positional here or there, e.g., Goblins."

Goblins on a Chaos Roster? Maybe I'm the only one, but that sounds really weird to me. Would also alter their play style quite a bit.

I don't think they mean adding Goblin(s) to the chaos roster, I think they mean existing positionals on rosters will stay as they are but new positionals may be added like how the ooligan and doom diver were added to the goblin roster.

So you should expect chaos to continue to have 4 warriors, 1 minotaur and 16 beastman but GW may add something(s) else that they feel fits thematically.

Reddit summary linked to by Jip is just full of awesome fun.

10 star players for chaos with minis to come - I love it!

Skitters wrote:

faust_33 wrote:
"Chaos Roster - The roster has not changed. It’s not their intent to make changes to their rosters, but they may add the odd positional here or there, e.g., Goblins."

Goblins on a Chaos Roster? Maybe I'm the only one, but that sounds really weird to me. Would also alter their play style quite a bit.

I don't think they mean adding Goblin(s) to the chaos roster, I think they mean existing positionals on rosters will stay as they are but new positionals may be added like how the ooligan and doom diver were added to the goblin roster.

So you should expect chaos to continue to have 4 warriors, 1 minotaur and 16 beastman but GW may add something(s) else that they feel fits thematically.

Ah, then I totally misread that! Thanks for clearing it up Skitters.

JT-Y wrote: you'll have to wait a while longer to see the new Star Player models I'm afraid, but they are being worked on and there's art for all of them.

Ouchhh

Sad news

I dont see the time to have Gobbler in my hands.

So sad and disappointed about the return of the 150K wizard (especially if he can be spam).
The wizard has always been the most profitable inducement. The must have that can give you a won.

The so cool and fun rostering Star Players rules is now broken. Why did you pay for a Star, and his upkeep charge for each match and surely spiralling expenses , if it is to offer wizard and horatio/Chaos Sorcerer to your opponent at each match?

Wizard Inducements can't be spammed, all Wizard Inducements are a 0-1 choice and use up one (In)famous Coaching choice as well. You can field only 1 Wizard Inducement, Horatio is also a Wizard Inducement. Hireling Sports Wizards and Chaos Wizards can cast one spell per game. Hireling Sports Wizard gets Fireball and Zap, which turns the player into a frog for the remainder of the drive, if you roll equal to or above the targets Strength. Frog stays on the pitch but can only be Badly Hurt, meaning any player turned into a frog is actually safe from lasting harm.
Fireball is the same as ever, requires a 4+ to hit anything under it. Horatio still works the same but remember his fireballs always scatter D3 squares in a random direction, so all he reliably burns is the grass.

As always, anything you add to your team, such as a rostered Star will bloat your TV. If you don't want your opponent having petty cash to spend on Inducements, keep your TV low rather than expect the available Inducements to be weak. I believe Inducements should help even the balance so I will introduce useful ones. What I won't do is reintroduce Lightning Bolt on a 2+ because that was too strong and on that the entire playtest group was unanimous.

JT-Y wrote:What I won't do is reintroduce Lightning Bolt on a 2+ because that was too strong and on that the entire playtest group was unanimous.

Working on the assumption that you are still planning for the low TV team to be no lower than 30% win% based on TV differences, and given this was already the case, I'll be interested to see how this pans out. My suspicion is that TV difference will have more of an effect on win% than before.

Thanks a lot for your answer. And what I say is because I love the works that was done with BB16.

We run a 38 Coachs tabletop league. And last year we played with LRB6 rules.
All the Coachs minmax their team in order to (lot of cash and Low TV) get a wizard per play-off game.

JT-Y wrote:As always, anything you add to your team, such as a rostered Star will bloat your TV. If you don't want your opponent having petty cash to spend on Inducements, keep your TV low rather than expect the available Inducements to be weak.

So, we know it.
But this year we are playing BB16. And damn, I love it a lot. Su much good ideas.
New petty cash system is nice.
Expensive Mistakes help to limit cash flow. Stadium really works well. (In)Famous are not broken.
Rostering Star player and Sponsoring is so much fun on pre/post match séquence. The TV bloat rising the spiralling expense rate. And you must ask for Sponsoring if you want to pay the upkeep charge. Team management is more interesting.
A lot of fun and we did the race to buy some star. And we Knowl it would be better when everybody will have a 10 Stars choice. (Cause the low price Stars locked can be hard when are induc missing)

We don't allow Stars and merc on inducement for Play-offs, so we get 17 Rostering Stars. The rules really works.

JT-Y wrote:Hireling Sports Wizard gets Fireball and Zap, which turns the player into a frog for the remainder of the drive, if you roll equal to or above the targets Strength. Frog stays on the pitch but can only be Badly Hurt, meaning any player turned into a frog is actually safe from lasting harm.
Fireball is the same as ever, requires a 4+ to hit anything under it. Horatio still works the same but remember his fireballs always scatter D3 squares in a random direction, so all he reliably burns is the grass.

The mid range Star cost 40/50K per game and increase the TV. And cost 150k-290k to buy, and it' really hard with Expensive Mistakes. It's not worth a 150K wizard.
Fireball don't change. Really good for that price. No Turn-Over.
And the return of the zap is strong. 2+ on a gutter (like the Old Bolt), and 3+ for turning a WarDancer into a frog. For a drive. It's incredibly strong for 150K. You could remove the Ar4 Titchy easily for the test of the game.
A lot better than rostering Star Player, paying him, increasing TV, asking for a Sponsor.

Next year we're going from minmax. Exactly like last year.
With Expensive Mistakes. But Sponsoring to mitigate. Back to the Old Years.

JT-Y wrote:Wizard Inducements can't be spammed, all Wizard Inducements are a 0-1 choice and use up one (In)famous Coaching choice as well. You can field only 1 Wizard Inducement, Horatio is also a Wizard Inducement. Hireling Sports Wizards and Chaos Wizards can cast one spell per game.

If I play Chaos Dwarf (Assuming the Chaos Wizard is also 150K), I can't buy each one?
With 380K, getting 1 Wiz, 1 Chaos Wiz and 1 Horatio (if opponents don't take it)?

JT-Y wrote:What I won't do is reintroduce Lightning Bolt on a 2+ because that was too strong and on that the entire playtest group was unanimous.

Thanks for that. Two times less reliable.
But for me, it remains the must have.

What I'm hearing, I like the vast majority. I have just one perspective to add.

JT-Y wrote:If you don't want your opponent having petty cash to spend on Inducements, keep your TV low rather than expect the available Inducements to be weak. I believe Inducements should help even the balance so I will introduce useful ones.

What makes leagues special (to me) is development. I 100% agree with being TV efficient, if you want to be competitive. I disagree with an inducement ever being better than efficient development (baring team specials of gobs/flings). That being said, the changes I see, I like. IMO, old wizard was too good, the best new cards were too good at 100k, and Bloodweiser might be to good. Two are fixed and the last is only on the fence of being too good for some matchups (also, IMO).
I see the path of more inducements as a risk, but one I like. Inducements are also different than efficient TV because they are chosen knowing your opponent's exact roster while almost all development is chosen before hand. More variety means inducement choices can be more tailored to the opponent. If none are individually too powerful, this is great. The risk being that if there are a plethora of new inducements one might slip by that is too powerful.
After rereading, I worry that Zap might be too strong, but I'm willing to give it a chance. 3+ (on most ball carriers) to pop the ball loose and mostly negate the player for the rest of the drive. Against a Gutter Runner (or Slann/Kislev Catcher) I would argue zap could be better than lightning bolt. I do like that this balances out the wizard as an inducement for bash vs dash. Dash loves the ball popping loose, but it will be easier to use against them.

You can only ever take one Wizard Inducement. Hireling Sports Wizard, Chaos Sorcerer and Hoartio are all a Wizard Inducement.
You can't combine them. This is deliberate.

You can also turn a Deathroller into a frog on a 6. Or Morg.
Yes Zap is strong, but in a different way to Lightning Bolt.
We churned this over for months, I'm quite confident that it'll be an improvement on the old Wizard in the long run, but Wizards ate always going to be a good choice because they ARE essentially a button you hit when you want to.
But, and as always, if you don't like it remember that all Inducements are at league commissioner's or event organiser's discretion. There is no such thing as the perfect set of rules to suit every individual or group so the freedom to choose what suits your league remains an essential component BB.

Cyberdelf, I don't think Inducements should be better than efficient development either, but I do think the bench can get deeper and become more diverse in various ways and I am aware that efficient development is a term that means many things to many people.

I induced the ‘proper’ wizard and Horatio in a league match last week. Had such high hopes, but had to use the proper wizard to stop me being scored on in my own drive and then Horatio only managed to K.O one player - one of my Berserkers!