warhammer fest spoilers! dark elves!!

[fromherashes]

the problem with Jeremiah Kool now is that Forgeworld are going to have to sculpt a very special model for him!

I propose that for "Classic" stars, you have to use "Classic" miniatures.

Jeremiah Kool is a 2nd Ed Dark Elf Blitzer, so ...

Except he was a thrower...

[rolo]

Huh. Could have sworn he was a blitzer at one point.

[JT-Y]

No, he debuted as a Catcher then turned thrower. That was in 2nd ed though and the Dark Elf team and the game as we play it has changed since then, so Kool provided an interesting opportunity to look at that evolution over time.

Hubris is the Blitzer I suspect you're thinking of, he was Kool's replacement as captain of the Cowboys.

[EastCoast]

No, he debuted as a Catcher then turned thrower. That was in 2nd ed though and the Dark Elf team and the game as we play it has changed since then, so Kool provided an interesting opportunity to look at that evolution over time.

Hubris is the Blitzer I suspect you're thinking of, he was Kool's replacement as captain of the Cowboys.

Correct, and when a reporter asked Hubris what he thought his chances were of keeping his good looks as long as Jeremiah Kool the answer was a broken bottle followed by "Better than yours, stupid!"

Ah, the good ol' days when dark elves were dark elves and had bonuses and penalties depending on stadium location...

Just a thought JT-Y, but you guys should really scrap the rostered SP upkeep rules. If we get Jeremiah Kool, Griff Oberwald, etc. it would be nice if you guys would actually let us use them routinely. I mean, they cost more than entire teams for a single model. Star Players have been allowed in tournaments for years and haven't unbalanced things... so there's actually a history of robust playtesting there.

If someone wants to build their DE roster around Hubris, Jeremiah, or Horkon why not allow it by default? It's just weird the way you guys are treating Star Players.

Specialist Games: "Here's a $40 model from Forge World of a famous blood bowl player!"
Hobbyist: "Wow, he looks AMAZING! Can I use him in my league?"
SG: "Yes! But only if you are a huge underdog"
Hobbyist: "But that only happens like once or twice a season..."
SG: "Yes! You'll also likely lose, by design, but man, oh, man doesn't that player look great on the shelf?!"
Hobbyist: "Ehhhh...."
SG: "Wait, wait, we've made new rules, you can add them to your team in DZ2!"
Hobbyist: "Oh wow, I just pay their cost and add them to my team?! Makes sense since they have loner and overcosted skills, really good thinking guy---"
SG: "Wait, there's more! You have to pay 60,000 at the end of every game, or you lose them because REASONS!"
Hobbyist: "60,000?!? Assuming I win every game, all my winnings will go toward upkeep. I'll never be able to add another player to the rost---"
SG: "Nope, hang on, you can help pay for them with ongoing sponsorships!"
Hobbyist: "Cool, so that will cover the upkeep cost?"
SG: "No, only about half"
Hobbyist: "So basically, the team is so completely gimped, nobody should ever roster a star player as a competitive strategy?"
SG: "Right!!!"
Hobbyist: "Ok, but assuming I'm willing to gimp my team, get an ongoing sponsorship, and pay a small ransom for the model, I can roster the star player and use my really expensive toy every week?"
SG: "Yes!!! Unless the sponsor gets mad, then there's a random chance your Star Player has to miss the match!"
Hobbyist: "Oh, FFS."


I'll take you all at your word that you playtest these things, but I'm just saying I'm a little skeptical if you tell me anyone in your office league has tried to build around a rostered star player for any length of time. It is an exercise in frustration.

[zebulon]

A star player cannot miss the next match because of the sponsors.

We tested on a season (38 Coachs) of 230 games and the rostering Star Players rule works very well with the sponsorship.
Mainly for champions costing less than 250K, cause of the expensive mistakes.

We are especially curious to see if the return of wizards will not diminish the interest of buying a star player.
We will know the impact in a year. After our season 12.

But we had a lot of fun this year. We see a lot of Star Players on the pitch.
The most beautiful of our 11 seasons thanks to BB16.

[EastCoast]

A star player cannot miss the next match because of the sponsors.

That stipulation is specifically for one time sponsorships. No such stipulation exists for the ongoing sponsorships unless it was updated in the Almanac. If that stipulation existed I would still be, although substantially less disgruntled.

We tested on a season (38 Coachs) of 230 games and the rostering Star Players rule works very well with the sponsorship.
Mainly for champions costing less than 250K, cause of the expensive mistakes.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. For Humans, one of the core set teams, the available stars released by Forge World don't meet your criteria? Zug, Griff, and Morg all exceed 250K. With the return of the wizard, they are even less likely to see the field via inducements. That's my point, why sell us uber expensive resin we can't/rarely use?

Now I'm genuinely curious, and since you had such a large league, how many teams actually rostered a champion for the season?

[MacHurto]

In our league we allow rostered star players, but then in play offs they create a huge imbalance as no outside stars are allowed and there are fewer inducements to choose from, skewing the balance to AV9/regen teams which have more chances to have the money to spare on a star. As the “no stars/mercs in play offs” rule was before DZ2, would you scrap it when using the “rostered star players” rule?

That stipulation is specifically for one time sponsorships. No such stipulation exists for the ongoing sponsorships unless it was updated in the Almanac. If that stipulation existed I would still be, although substantially less disgruntled.

Would be great to have that clarified. We have always assumed it was for both types but now that I read it, you are right.

[zebulon]

@eastcoast
18 different coaches hired 19 Champions (18 different cause setekh was hired twice).
Wilhelm Chaney was the most expensive.

In our league we allow rostered star players, but then in play offs they create a huge imbalance as no outside stars are allowed and there are fewer inducements to choose from, skewing the balance to AV9/regen teams which have more chances to have the money to spare on a star. As the “no stars/mercs in play offs” rule was before DZ2, would you scrap it when using the “rostered star players” rule?

Yes. No stars/merc during play off this Year.

7 of the last 8 teams had a star player. (It's probably a bit too much).
Next year we will allow mercenaries (without skills) in PO.
And with the wizards, maybe we will see more different strategies.
In any case, there will be more choice in inducements than there ever was.

Would be great to have that clarified. We have always assumed it was for both types but now that I read it, you are right.

+1

[EastCoast]

@eastcoast
18 different coaches hired 19 Champions (18 different cause setekh was hired twice).
Wilhelm Chaney was the most expensive.

Thank you. I don't want to just make assumptions, but it sounds champions were hired for a single match or two in your league, rather than constructing the roster around them ad keeping them long term.

[EastCoast]

Elijah Doom
190K // Dark Elves, Elven Union
MA6 ST3 AG4 AV9
Fend, Guard, Stand Firm, Wrestle, Loner

He seems a bit good for the price.

I thought guard was a no no for stars?

His skills calculate out somewhere between 155K +/- 10K assuming my math is correct. For a star that's a really good price, but it's not batshit crazy. He's really good for that roster though.

Asperon Thorn's cost is the one that really stands out to me

*If* he's a lineman his cost should be 200K +/-10K
*If* he's a runner with -MA + AV and -Dump off his cost should be 170K +/- 10K

He's way more of a one trick pony, but he's pretty grossly undercosted. Did they mean to get rid of Animosity? I keep looking at these stars and this seems like more of an Elf Union boost, right?

[plasmoid]

Oooh - pricing for Elijah Doom and Kiroth seems a bit on the cheap side...(?)
AFAIK the way the BBRC did it was to find the closest existing positional, charge 20K for normal skills, 30K for doubles skills and +10K extra on top of the normal Price for any stat increase.
Admittedly, they did later tweak a handful of the stars, so you could argue that the same has been done with (all of) these stars.

But:
Asperon Thorn - High Elf thrower = 150K. Priced at 160K.
Elijah Doom - Dark Elf Lineman = 210K. Priced at 190K. Cheap!
Mordrix Hex - Witch Elf - if we do swap of (say) dauntless for the missing jump up, then = 180K. Priced at 230K. Harsh Price! Is the missing Jump Up a typo?
Kiroth Krakeneye - Dark Elf Lineman = 210K. Priced at 170K. Super cheap (though you might argue his skills are marginal)
Jeremaih Kool - As a Dark Elf Runner he comes out at 350K, as a Blitzer 360K. Either way 390K is a spot above that.

Thoughts?
Personally I think Elijah Doom is quite good and very affordable.
Cheers
Martin

[Fassbinder75]

Hooray for stars that aren't overpriced trash!

[Jip]

I'm intrigued to see the background for Krakeneye...ive got visions of needing a model a bit like the idoneth deepkin character that has an octopus on his back - though I think it'd need a lot of work to make it look sporty enough....and my experience of AOS elves is that they are a little on the small side compared to BB Elves (and I assume DElves)

He looks a bit like this. It’s a helmet given to him after a soggy game against Southstorm Squids.

[JT-Y]

...he claims.

[Moraiwe]

How did we get a mutated elf who WON'T play for Pact teams?