Spike IV

[Christy42]

However, it clearly states that you cannot turn a player who has Stunty into a zombie for your team, so why does Throttlesnot even exist?! That is what erks me about him. With the rule that you can't turn stunties, he's the wrong fit for these teams and a very odd, random includement in my eyes. To me it seems like that because he's a star then it's okay?

Morg is an ogre without bonehead, also not possible. It is ok for Star players to be different/special to normal developed players, imho. If you want an in world fluff explanation, you cah head rule that while zombifying a stunty is possible... Why would a coach do it? They are weaker and smaller. Totally useless player.

He is also a zombie but has ag 3? Why not ag 2 and VLL instead? Yes he would leap on a 4+ not a 3+, but again, he is meant to be a zombie so it's acceptable. I also like the idea that he ironically should have the stakes skill (cos he jumps on opponents with a gnarly, twisted broken pogo stick but I guess that's the fluff for him having Stab).

He cannot have VLL because the pogo is broken, hence the stab skill. For AG3, again it is a star player. Zombies can be developed to have AG3, so not sure why is that a problem.

Only thing that makes no sense is SW. From a game point of view it makes him really overcosted and kind of useless (iirc his stats). Also, stab never (iirc) gives SW. A pogo is not considered a weapon. Why is he discriminated? Would be nice to know the reasons (both fluff and specially game wise) for the developers to give him SW.

My two cents

In my head his pogo is now basically a large spear (pointy end down). Hence the secret weapon. Standing on a spear does not make it ok!
In my head he is also impaled by this pogo, hence his original demise and why it was weird for him to be raised. Obviously what is in my head may be different to what was in the writers head at the time of writing. I think he needed more detail.

However you are right that he is overcosted.

Overall I liked the spike, I think it shows as we are giving out about a single minor star player and not much else!

[TopsyKretts]

Ramtut III is 20k cheaper now?

We got a bunch of star players currently. A total of 93 (if I count correctly). And there could be some additional unique characters joining the pitch like that drunken dwarf and the cheerleader.

Asperon Thorn, Barik Farblast, Bertha Bigfist, Bilerot Vomitflesh, Bo Gallanté, Bomber Dribblesnot, Boomer Eziasson, Brick Far’th & Grotty, Bryce ‘The Slice’ Cambuel, Buboe Festerspit, Bulla Shardhorn, Count Luthor Von Drakenborg, Crazy Igor, Deeproot Strongbranch, Dolfar Longstride, Eldril Sidewinder, Elijah Doom, Fezglitch, Flint Churnblade, Frank N. Stein, Fungus The Loon, Glart Smashrip, Glart Smashrip Jr., Gobbler Grimlich, G’Ral Blodschüker, Grak & Crumbleberry, Grashnak Blackhoof, Gretchen Wächter, Griff Oberwald, Grim Ironjaw, Grobrik Orcbiter, Grut Gitgobbla, Guffle Pushmaw, Hack Enslash, Hakflem Skuttlespike, Headsplitter, Heinrich Von Duisgart, Helmut Wulf, Hemlock, Horkon Heartripper, Hthark the Unstoppable, Hubris Rakarth, Humerus Carpal, Icepelt Hammerblow, Ithaca Benoin, Ivan Deathshroud, J Earlice, Jeremiah Kool (Golden Era), Jordell Freshbreeze, Karla von Kill, Kiroth Krakeneye, Kreek Rustgouger, Lewdgrip Whiparm, Lord Borak the Despoiler, Lottabottol, Madcap Miggz, Max Spleenripper, Mighty Zug, Mordrix Hex, Morg ‘n’ Thorg, Nobbla Blackwart, Prince Moranion, Puggy Baconbreath, Quetzal Leap, Ramtut III, Rashnak Backstabber, Rasta Tailspike, Ripper Bolgrot, ‘Rotten’ Rick Bupkeis, Roxanna Darknail, Scrappa Sorehead, Scyla Anfingrimm, Setekh, Slibli, Sinnedbad, Skitter Stab-Stab, Skrull Halfheight, Soaren Hightower, The Swift Twins (Lucien & Valen), Throttlesnot ‘The Impaler’, Tolly Glocklinger, Ugroth Bolgrot, Varag Ghoul-Chewer, Wilhelm Chaney, Willow Rosebark, Withergrasp Doubledrool, Zara the Slayer, Zzharg Madeye, White Dwarf (Grombrindal) & Black Gobbo.

Wonder how many we'll get eventually, we're soon to reach 100, and with only 4 Spike Magazines out, there could be many more to come.

[spubbbba]

Some of those stars have been removed or replaced now though haven't they?

Brick, Ithaca, Setekh and J Earlice all spring to mind. Not sure about the status of the likes of The Black Gobbo or Grak either.

[fromherashes]

Some of those stars have been removed or replaced now though haven't they?

Brick, Ithaca, Setekh and J Earlice all spring to mind. Not sure about the status of the likes of The Black Gobbo or Grak either.

Still active in NAF tournaments etc. As is Zara.

[plasmoid]

Hi Spubbbba,
they've been removed from some teams (teams that have their own Spike issue), but it is a rather sticky issue whether that Means that they're gone from all teams or not.
Cheers
Martin

[Glamdryn]

Our league is keeping all CRP stars plus the new ones until all teams have their updated 10 star treatment. At which point we will evaluate all the stars that were left out of the current Blood Bowl edition. It seemed like the only real fair way to go about it.

[TopsyKretts]

Some of those stars have been removed or replaced now though haven't they?

Brick, Ithaca, Setekh and J Earlice all spring to mind. Not sure about the status of the likes of The Black Gobbo or Grak either.

I can't see that any have been explicitly "removed". Star Players are simply not included yet. That's why we've seen countless waves of "new" star players, but it's often the old ones presented as new.

Would someone deny the use of Star Players like Jordell Freshbreeze or Barik Farblast just because that at some given time in the BB2016 edition, they haven't been released yet? If so, I wonder why. My impression is that people are still using Slann, they're certainly not going to be included any time soon.

Grak & Crumbleberry as well as White Dwarf & Black Gobbo all have official rules (Grak & Crumbleberry are even in version 2). People paid good money for these miniatures, in my mind they are certainly not excluded.

[TopsyKretts]

Hi Spubbbba,
they've been removed from some teams (teams that have their own Spike issue), but it is a rather sticky issue whether that Means that they're gone from all teams or not.
Cheers
Martin

I wouldn't agree just because some teams are given a list of 10 star players, that excludes them from using the rest? For example Frank N Stein was available long before Spike 4, would you say it was removed, then re-added?

[TopsyKretts]

Our league is keeping all CRP stars plus the new ones until all teams have their updated 10 star treatment. At which point we will evaluate all the stars that were left out of the current Blood Bowl edition. It seemed like the only real fair way to go about it.

That's sensible. The game is still developed and updated multiple times a year, we have no guarantee the existing previous star players are not introduced any time in the future. The notion that star players are available, then not available (because they haven't been reintroduced), then available again (after reintroduction) seems silly to me.

[plasmoid]

Hi TopsyKretts,
...what?

With each team's Spike issue, they get a list of 10 stars available to them under the BB2016 rules. And that is their official list. It is assumed that eventually all teams will get a Spike magazine and a 10-star list. The star player access from the previous edition of BB is by no Means GW official. So, when Brick was not on the star list for Chaos, it means that Chaos does not officially have access to Brick.

It remains to be seen whether that means that Brick will also not be on the list for the other teams he used to play for.

Cheers
Martin

[TopsyKretts]

Hi TopsyKretts,
...what?

With each team's Spike issue, they get a list of 10 stars available to them under the BB2016 rules. And that is their official list. It is assumed that eventually all teams will get a Spike magazine and a 10-star list. The star player access from the previous edition of BB is by no Means GW official. So, when Brick was not on the star list for Chaos, it means that Chaos does not officially have access to Brick.

It remains to be seen whether that means that Brick will also not be on the list for the other teams he used to play for.

Cheers
Martin

I don't understand... in 2016 I could use Frank N. Stein. In 2019 I could use Frank N. Stein. Are you telling me at some period between 2016-2019 I could not use Frank N. Stein? Why would Frank N. Stein be unavailable between 2016-2019?

After a rough count, these are the number of star players I counted available to each team:

7: Chaos Dwarf, Lizardmen, Ogre, Slann
8: Amazon, Dwarf, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, Wood Elf
9: Norse, Vampire
10: High Elf, Human, Khemri
11: Elf, Skaven, Chaos Renegade, Underworld
12: Chaos, Dark Elf, Necromantic, Nurgle
14: Undead

Some Star Player options comes as duo, but they are only counted once here. I also didn't include White Dwarf & Black Gobbo in this count, as they depend on both teams and are uncertain.

If at some point GW official can supply a complete list of Star Players, I'll consider excluding the old ones. Until then, I just don't see any motivation to do so. They have been reintroduced continuously and will be probably be reintroduced for several years to come. I'm not gonna delay their usage based on GW's scheduling plan. The order teams and star players are getting "official" seems very arbitrary to me. I think the game should be as rich and fun as possible, that means not artifically limiting or delaying star players just because GW hasn't released plastic miniatures for some team.

[JT-Y]

There is a comprehensive list of Star Players in the 2018 Almanac, to which you can add new Stars as they appear in Spike! Journal.

Teams have access to ten Stars at most at present. If you're counting more then you're including Stars that those teams do not have access to.

[TopsyKretts]

There is a comprehensive list of Star Players in the 2018 Almanac, to which you can add new Stars as they appear in Spike! Journal.

Teams have access to ten Stars at most at present. If you're counting more then you're including Stars that those teams do not have access to.

I don't understand that, sorry.

[Jip]

There is a comprehensive list of Star Players in the 2018 Almanac, to which you can add new Stars as they appear in Spike! Journal.

Teams have access to ten Stars at most at present. If you're counting more then you're including Stars that those teams do not have access to.

I don't understand that, sorry.

It makes more sense if you read it as a response from a Games Workshop, who JT-Y works for, perspective. 'Official' Games Workshop Star Players are only the ones that have been re-visited since the re-release of Blood Bowl in 2016. So, if you're playing Games Workshop 'proper' rules then you would only be able to use the Star Players that have had rules released in some way, shape or form, since 2016. Anyone from before that time is either not in the new ruleset, or not in the new ruleset... yet.

The confusion comes when you factor in Star Players that were around prior to the re-release; either old Games Workshop ones, or community created ones that have crept in over the years. I think many (including myself) people use a mixture of all, some or none of the new Star Players and all, some or none of the old Star Players, which is where you get grey areas. To add more confusion to it, you've got entire teams (Bretonnians, Slann, Khorne and Simians) that Games Workshop don't recognise as legitimate teams (quite rightly, as they weren't directly created by Games Workshop and/or don't feature in the latest iteration of the game).

As an example, Games Workshop released Karla von Kill in Death Zone: Season 2, seemingly a replacement for Zara the Slayer.

If I go to a Games workshop event, I can use Karla von Kill, but not Zara the Slayer. If I go to a NAF event, I can use Karla von Kill and Zara the Slayer.

Hopefully I've got that all right.

The man himself will probably give a much more accurate response, but does that help?

[TopsyKretts]

Thanks, that makes perfect sense. I don't mean to criticize new (or old) Star Players, I think they're all interesting in various degrees. But I must disagree there is any "comprehensive" star player list. I buy anything and everything related to Blood Bowl 2016, and I've yet to see a comprehensive star player list.

For example, can I use Jordell Freshbreeze now, or must I wait to use him until wood elf have new plastic minis released accompanied by a Spike magazine?

If someone tells me "this is what you can use, and you can't use anything else", that don't cut it for me. I need reason. Why can't these be used? Is the game better without them? That's a valid argument. But if a particular star player is then released later, the game obviously wasn't better without them?

When deciding what can or cannot be used, I (unlike official GW) must take in consideration if the game becomes better or worse. So far I'm not able to make that judgement, but in general more star players are better than few star players.