Can I get a pdf of the book?

[Lyracian]

If it makes a difference, I bought a ton of books, cards, pitches and magazines for the previous edition, and now I'm not.

I can understand people who invested heavily in the BB2016 rules being upset. I only picked up a single Spike and a couple of supplements and card sets.

They did the same with Necromunda. GW seemed to be selling the Beta release and then once they sorted out the kinks sold the actual updates as an improved edition. One new boxed set and rule book every 4-5 years is fine with me. I am unlikely to pick anything up, such as Spike magazines, in the mean time.

Overall I like the changes. There are a few teams that got shafted but there are plenty to select from. Some minor tweaks to redraft and having Wild scatter from target not thrower and I would be happy with this as a better rule set than previous.

[TopsyKretts]

I can understand people who invested heavily in the BB2016 rules being upset. I only picked up a single Spike and a couple of supplements and card sets.

They did the same with Necromunda. GW seemed to be selling the Beta release and then once they sorted out the kinks sold the actual updates as an improved edition. One new boxed set and rule book every 4-5 years is fine with me. I am unlikely to pick anything up, such as Spike magazines, in the mean time.

Overall I like the changes. There are a few teams that got shafted but there are plenty to select from. Some minor tweaks to redraft and having Wild scatter from target not thrower and I would be happy with this as a better rule set than previous.

I don't mind the changes. I think the previous edition was 'complete', and everything released after the starter was mainly adding optional/extra content. What I cannot understand is the state of all this. The implied cost. Boxed teams don't gain any of the extra content (as it was with humans & orcs of BB2016). But new teams (Necro) gain the full range of content, exactly as before (pitch, wizard, balls, weather, cup, inducement, stars, kick-off). While all existing teams lost theirs? And on top of that, Dwarf/Skaven regained their pitch (slightly altered), but no other teams regained their pitches? With this hot mess, all outdated bonus content can easily be imported wholesale into BB2020, at least that brings some sense of parity between teams? Or should each edition favorize the teams released for that edition? Are people who enjoy the fresh Necromantic Spike happy about trading it with all 10 existing Spikes? I'm not.

Compare this to Warhammer Underworlds, which is much cleaner and transparent in its expansions and seasons. It has strict and clear rules of what previous content can and cannot be used, and all players are aware of this in advance of any new season, whether it's revealed or not. Case in point, a new season was recently released by GW. All existing teams (warbands) are valid and keep their unique content. Otherwise, all universal content older than 2 seasons are outdated (rotated). No surprise. No limbo. New teams are not favored on the expense of the existing.

At least Necromunda strives to keep parity between the main gangs, the problem there is those gangs are now iterated over the 3rd or 4th time in 4 years. But they got parity (at least in the short period before everything is reset again).

[Lyracian]

I played a lot of Magic The Gathering over the years and I think they are currently on an 18 month rotation. All games companies need us to buy stuff so they can make money. With your comparison all your 'war bands' i.e. teams are still playable. It is just there special connect which has been removed. Dwarves/Skaven might have been the first to get an update but I doubt they will be the only ones.

As for most of the stuff you are talking about (Wizard, balls, weather, cup, kick-off) who actually uses them? Possibly the Wizard, I have no idea what other teams got. The rest of it is just fluff that is not legal in any League or Tournament I have seen. It might get used in a fun game; as could the old Spike! magazines.

That only leaves Stars and Inducements. There were some nice additions but far too many for my liking. The mix we have could be a little better but I much prefer the new method of giving each team a special rule that is associated with Stars. Very easy to add a new "Bad Lands Brawl" star or "Elven League" star. They do not need to make changes to any older team then.

You either have a static game with no releases (which we had for years) or a dynamic game with regular updates and releases. At least this way they might release something I will buy.

[TopsyKretts]

I played a lot of Magic The Gathering over the years and I think they are currently on an 18 month rotation. All games companies need us to buy stuff so they can make money. With your comparison all your 'war bands' i.e. teams are still playable. It is just there special connect which has been removed. Dwarves/Skaven might have been the first to get an update but I doubt they will be the only ones.

As for most of the stuff you are talking about (Wizard, balls, weather, cup, kick-off) who actually uses them? Possibly the Wizard, I have no idea what other teams got. The rest of it is just fluff that is not legal in any League or Tournament I have seen. It might get used in a fun game; as could the old Spike! magazines.

That only leaves Stars and Inducements. There were some nice additions but far too many for my liking. The mix we have could be a little better but I much prefer the new method of giving each team a special rule that is associated with Stars. Very easy to add a new "Bad Lands Brawl" star or "Elven League" star. They do not need to make changes to any older team then.

You either have a static game with no releases (which we had for years) or a dynamic game with regular updates and releases. At least this way they might release something I will buy.

If nobody uses the extra stuff, why do GW create so much of it and sell it in cards, magazines, books and even apps? And even if nobody uses it, the 'unused' still got disparity between teams. If team a plays against team b, team a has loads of tricks and things to do in the previous edition, but nothing in the current, and vice versa for team b. Never an edition where both teams can bring the same amount or types of components to the game.

The game loses great value to me when rules are dictated by release schedule for plastic. Or random re-releases like the skaven/dwarf pitch.

To your comment on who uses it, well I do. Match Event, special balls, referees, pitches, weathers, kick-offs... I paid for it, why wouldn't I use it? A lot of it is very fun. How is a snotling ball suit not fun? Why can only 1 kick-off table ever be used, and all the rest cannot? Why play the same weather table every time? I like to try new stuff, play with tables I haven't memorized, be surprised once in a while. If I am the only one, why then does GW dissapoint me so much? Seems like I'm the only one they're trying to please?

For your comment on the star players shake-up, redistribution and trim, that's quite subjective. I prefer to comment on the more objective parts, like we went from something like 109 to 28. That's a great loss, regardless of how they're changed. And some of those few that survived are also severly dumbed down like the White Dwarf & Black Gobbo who lost all their unique rules. And can both be taken to play at the same time as team mates by Chorfs by the way. It's pretty much the same across the board, from 10 wizards to 2. I could go on...

[Lyracian]

If nobody uses the extra stuff, why do GW create so much of it and sell it in cards,

I assume because people keep buying it?

The game loses great value to me when rules are dictated by release schedule for plastic. Or random re-releases like the skaven/dwarf pitch.

That is unfortunate for you. I dislike the limited run style of the releases. People who did not buy the Dwarf Card pack when it came out can no longer get them. That is a shame for getting new players into the game or a particular team. As for the actual release schedule that is fine with me. I will go to Warhammer World once a year and pick up a couple of Star Players. I can ignore just about everything else GW do.

To your comment on who uses it, well I do. Match Event, special balls, referees, pitches, weathers, kick-offs... I paid for it, why wouldn't I use it? A lot of it is very fun. How is a snotling ball suit not fun?

What League or Tournament are you using this content in? Otherwise it is just a fun one off game and has no impact on the competitive scene. If a Tournament wanted to use special weather/pitch/kick/etc stuff then I would expect it to be in the event rules pack not hidden in some old Magazine half the players will not have. I have no clue what a snotling ball suit is!

For your comment on the star players shake-up, redistribution and trim, that's quite subjective. I prefer to comment on the more objective parts, like we went from something like 109 to 28. That's a great loss, regardless of how they're changed. And some of those few that survived are also severly dumbed down like the White Dwarf & Black Gobbo who lost all their unique rules. And can both be taken to play at the same time as team mates by Chorfs by the way. It's

To me having over a hundred stars is just bloat. A small number is much better for a balanced game. I hated the WD/BG special rules. For me they were terrible and are much better now they are just Star Players.

[TopsyKretts]

I assume because people keep buying it?

Would like to delve deeper into how many are buying it and then how many are using it. And what the reason for buying it if not using it? I guess none of this is a problem for you and all others not using the rules. Similar to those who don't play Blood Bowl at all. Such a strange divide between this game and most (?) other GW games, where people are much more focused on all the content, not just the core. The community is however phenomenal for sold-out content. Everything is available, especially for new players. This not only applies to BB, but all GW games like Necromunda, Kill Team, Warhammer Underworlds etc.

The extra content are great in leagues. I don't play tournaments much as I prefer developing teams naturally. And I never play one-offs as development is what motivates me. Not sure how you play your games, but I play with what I have available and what I feel like. All of it official from GW of course (not that I would mind any home-made content). As long as GW doesn't prohibit anything, why should anyone stop using it? And even if GW prohibited something, that shouldn't stop anyone either?

The rules (100% all rules) are not only hidden in old magazines, but also available in complete rules compilations, so easy to reference for anyone with an internet connection.

I fully agree having 100+ stars is bloat. Having 200+ cards is also bloat. Or much else that is just continuously spewed out by GW. Which makes me wonder why they do it? The latest addition for the previous edition was in August last year, just months before the new edition. With new stars and everything else. Just to drop everything in December. And then continue as before by adding the squirrel and who knows what else in the near future?

A snotling ball suit is one of the bits in the plastic gobling set:

Content.png

[Lyracian]

Would like to delve deeper into how many are buying it and then how many are using it. And what the reason for buying it if not using it? I guess none of
[/quote]
I cannot help you with that. Maybe you need a new poll? Some people are collectors and just want to buy everything.

Before the pandemic we were up to 30 coaches regularly playing BB every week. A few people purchased Spike! and pitches but I never saw, or heard of, anyone actually using the weather;kick off or other special stuff from them. I am not saying they did not but if they did I never saw it.

Our league pack has a nice summary
Slightly less chaos: Special Play cards, Famous referees, racial pitches, balls and weather tables may not be used for league play.

The rules (100% all rules) are not only hidden in old magazines, but also available in complete rules compilations, so easy to reference for anyone with an internet connection.
[/quote]
This bring us back to the topics title. Only if you buy a PDF or physical copy of that publication. Where would you get the rules for an Elf pitch or a Snotling ball suit? I do not see an option to buy discontinued product on the GW websites.

[TopsyKretts]

Our league pack has a nice summary
Slightly less chaos: Special Play cards, Famous referees, racial pitches, balls and weather tables may not be used for league play.

Why your league pack prohibit things? Sounds similar to saying no dwarves etc. Nobody has a saying on what I can and cannot use in my games. Therefore my league "pack" is nicer: "Play!".

The rules (100% all rules) are not only hidden in old magazines, but also available in complete rules compilations, so easy to reference for anyone with an internet connection.

This bring us back to the topics title. Only if you buy a PDF or physical copy of that publication. Where would you get the rules for an Elf pitch or a Snotling ball suit? I do not see an option to buy discontinued product on the GW websites.

You don't have to buy anything. You can get all rules compiled into a single document. Where you would get it? You could get it from me for example. Or anyone else doing the same thing. People are keeping stuff alive by collecting, organizing and even making community editions of long abandoned GW games. Don't underestimate the community!

[Skitters]

I've generally purchased the Spike, player cards and dice in addition to 1 or 2 boxes at each team release. I did get a few pitches (Dark elves, Wood Elves, halflings and the snow pitch) but decided that they were a bit too bulky to be buying for the very occasional use they would have....and the Dark Elf pitch - whilst looking gorgeous - proved to be difficult to play on as markings were unclear in several areas.

The player cards I primarily buy for the art - and in particular the star player art. I don't do many tournaments, but of the ones I've been to only GW hosted events have used the special play cards. The league I play in don't use them either. I do enjoy reading the blurbs for the specal plays...but on the whole they are an overly frivolous purchase. Certainly not value for money, but I've got them all so far so there is a bit of a completionist thing with them.

As an aside I managed to find the Necro cards at GW Birmingham, and the Dwarf cards online in a random toy shop after both pre orders failed...but I have a growing feeling that I should have taken the opportunity to stop buying the new edition team cards, especially after belatedly realising that the special play cards are now team specific which makes them even more situational than they already were.

[Lyracian]

Why your league pack prohibit things? Sounds similar to saying no dwarves etc.

To make a level playing field for all.

Nobody has a saying on what I can and cannot use in my games. Therefore my league "pack" is nicer: "Play!".

Sounds disorganised. Where is your league? How many players do you have?

I have played in five leagues using the tabletop rules. Three of them allowed cards none allowed the extra stuff such as balls and custom weather tables.

LBBL was about to start Season 8 April 2020 but that got delayed due to pandemic.
https://www.lbbl.co.uk/assets/downloads ... 9%20v1.pdf

[TopsyKretts]

To make a level playing field for all.

We're going off topic here, but what's the definition of a level playing field? Some of the fields we play on are actually not level and the ball will bounce towards the side the pitch is sloping

Sounds disorganised. Where is your league? How many players do you have?

I've completed more leagues than I can remember, all of them tabletop and all allowed official BB rules from GW (for example cards, numerous kick-off tables, weather tables, pitches, stadiums, sponsorhips, all sorts of referees, star players, special balls, match events etc). My current league consists of 4 players. We don't have a web site for it though.

Basically, nobody is in any position to tell others what they can or cannot play. You could call it ultimate freedom league. Looks like the french love a bit of liberté too: http://teamfrancebb.1fr1.net/f34-precis ... les-regles