One Turn scorers...

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Are one-turn scores a "broken" feature of Blood Bowl?

Yes, they should be made impossible or less likely.
9
25%
Yes, because every team should have the opportunity to score in one
0
No votes
No, they're just fine.
27
75%
 
Total votes: 36

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Lucien Swift
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Post by Lucien Swift »

the best thing to do to keep 1-turn scorers from ruining your game is to have the ball the other 15 turns...

a 2-1 win is fine with me.

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Post by neoliminal »

Acerak wrote: But, ah...otherwise, this rule would not be cool at all. Even a Skaven team with a good number of skills and a team re-roll has to make quite a few rolls to make this work. Giving the other team an automatic shot at stopping it - when the defense has clearly failed, mind you - says, "Taking two or more turns to score is more worthy than scoring in one."
I don't see how you consider this to be a failure by the defense. The defense, at best, and force a couple of rolls. What this does do is give the defense a chance to stop the play.

One thing I think you are ignoring is that the one turn scoring team can set up to defend this blitz! They can put tacklezones on people and protect the ball carrier in the endzone. It doesn't seem unfair when you consider that aspect.

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Post by Lucien Swift »

lets be honest here, exactly how many one-turn scores have you people even actually seen? since teh beginning of 3e i have seen exactly 1 skaven GR with the skills required, and he was crippled after only about 4 games with those skills... grand total of about 5 OTTD's... add to that a handful of hurled stunts, maybe 4 or 5.... consider that i've played maybe 300 games with average scores of 3-2.... i'm not a math guy, but lets be honest, it's a trivial percentage.... it doesn't happen often, the player involved rarely lives long, AND WITH AGING THE G.R. IN QUESTION WILL HAVE A SHORT CAREER AT BEST!!!!!!

if you want to reduce the occurrance further, do something that helps the whole game and make mutations random...

in the end, don't fix what just ain't broken.

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Post by Ancalagon »

Totally agree with lucien :D

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Post by Deathwing »

Well, we did have a Very Long Legs/Sprint AG5 GR who scored more than a few..certainly didn't cause his team to dominate though. And yep, he died on a failed gfi as he entered the EZ for another trademark one-turner... :lol:
Such players are few and far between though, as noted above, and they tend to be targetted mercilessly. Another thing to consider is overuse of such a player hurts the development of the others.

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1 turners

Post by plasmoid »

I've seen plenty of 1 turners. skaven and wood elfs get them easy.

If nothing else, sidestep on the LOS, and a clever blitz pushing an opponent into your sidestepper will do the trick.

Not broken - I think - but almost.
With the loss of wizards on the opponents turn, they've certainly become a lot harder to stop.

On the other hand, diving tackle and only 1 leap per turn should make it harder for them to clear a big fat line guarding the endzone.

Nope, I didn't vote (yet) - cause I'm not sure.[/i]

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Post by DaImp »

It is good that we can discuss this issue with valid arguments for either side, as that can only lead to a resolution that is well thought out.
For my part I think the claim that it doesn't happen very often therfore it doesn't need fixing is not realy the point here... although I think I side half and half with both sides on this issue (nothing like sitting on the fence then is there?). I don't mind if the rules staying as they are as (just to semi contradict my previous statment... lol) a 1 turn TD does not occur very often and thus is not a big concern, and when they do occur the player gets targeted and/or steals SPP's from the rest of the team. That said, just because it doesn't happen very often, it does not mean that a rule is not in need of revising. My major problem with the 1 turn TD is that the other team does not move at all before a TD gets scored and as a result I find this unrealistic. That realy is my only gripe with a 1 turn TD . As a part of the game I accept that it is possible and is just "one of those things". If the use of the "was it a TD?" rule adds to the excitement of BB then I say we use it, if it does not do anything to make BB more enjoyable then there is no reason to add it.

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Post by Lucien Swift »

sure, it isn't realistic.... and that doesn't bother me at all... i mean, you've got a game here where people run around basing into each other whilke wearing costumes littered with half-foot spikes.... _realistic_ would be a game where every one of your players were lucky to crawl off the field with a wound that wouldn't kill him before the end of the day!

no, it's not realistic, it's gamesmanship. it's an exploitation of an available aspect of the rules of the game by a small handful of plyaers on a small portion of the teams in the game... it's a tactic, it's an option, it's fine.

and the defense does, in fact, influence a ottd, every tackle zone can be thought of as a moving defender trying his best and failing (or succeeding) to stop the runner... poorly constructed defenses get scored on, it's true of every sport and it's true of every game...

and what do you gain from a one-turn scorer.... in the most common case, skaven or woodies, you have a player with 2-3 skill raises already, if that player hgasn't aged by now, he will start doing it soon... in exchange for, in all probability, half a dozen 2-2 ties you are going to turn your own best player into a cripple in record time... aging has taken the teeth out of the 1-turner, the bbrc has already taken action against these guys... they didn't take what is ultimately a tactical option out of the game, they've balanced it by saying to coaches "if you want to keep your secret weapon around, you've gotta find other plays too, or he won't last..."

and that doesn't even get into the realities of that player peaking out before he gets to that third skill he needs....

so, you want to coach a speedy gonzales offence, ok, here's what you get... you spend 6-10 games feeding the ball to a GR, he peaks before getting VLL, you start over with another GR, he gets all the skills he needs, scores three TD's in a 3-2 win, and then gets killed the next game. you spend another half-dozen games feeding the ball to a third GR, he has a stellar career, scoring a wopping 8 TD's before aquiring a niggling injury to an aging roll, you use you apothecary on him every week, but your star blitzer dies permanently because of it and your linemen, who've been irrelevant the whole season, now are pretty useless.... even with speedy, you're finding yourself in a lot of 2-1, 1-0, 3-2 losses because your team, having devoted everything to a player who's won you half a dozen of your 24 games has all your spp's and is just a few games away from retirement and you starting over again....

in the end, those poor unfortunate humans, with no 1-turners, still win the league every year despite your super-rat....

1-turn scorers are irrelevant, they swing a game here and there, they don't change league outcomes... and these days, they're even less important...

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Post by neoliminal »

Well there's some assumptions I'd like to put to rest.

1) I don't think Jervis intended any team to be able to score in one turn.

2) Just because you haven't seen this abused doesn't mean it isn't. In our local league I've seen two teams "abuse" this. One was a woodelf team that kept this player on the roster just to one turn score near the end of halfs. The team was nearly undefeated.

3) This poll isn't exactly what it seems, so I'll start another poll to get the info I wanted. The ticket of this poll was picked by someone else to resolve an unrelated issue.

So as a final note, I think one turn scores are broken, but I'm happy to be in the minority. While they can be rare, when they happen, they happen repeatedly, making the team that has one feel very broken.

'nuff said.

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Post by Stefan »

As most of you I voted with "fine" too.
If a team has the possibility for one-term-TD's they should be allowed to use them.
On the one hand it seems to be unfair for the other teams but on the other hand those players are hunted and a gutter runner or woddlelven catcher isn't that difficult to kill. :evil:

By the way: How can woodelves scroes one-term-TD's? A catcher with sprint has only MA 9 +3 = 12 but he need 13, doesn't he ?

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Post by Lucien Swift »

maybe it wasn't intended, but it's there.... and maybe it is used well by some, but it will be used briefly by others...

if you want to go fiddling with things, fiddle with physical abilities... make mutations random and you'll have an affect on the game that is both far-reaching and profound... teh odds of getting that VLL GR go to somthing akin to the state lottery... and the same with those RSF/Claw CW's, etc... lots of bad things just go away.... they're mutations, not attachments, why are they chosing them anyway?

if a rare GR with VLL shows up, let the coach be fortune's fool... if the woodies want to keep shoving linemen around to get a sqaure out of a sidestepping sprinter, let them leave him on the LOS ffor the inevitable BLITZ! kickoff....

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Post by neoliminal »

Jerry wrote:As most of you I voted with "fine" too.
If a team has the possibility for one-term-TD's they should be allowed to use them.
On the one hand it seems to be unfair for the other teams but on the other hand those players are hunted and a gutter runner or woddlelven catcher isn't that difficult to kill. :evil:

By the way: How can woodelves scroes one-term-TD's? A catcher with sprint has only MA 9 +3 = 12 but he need 13, doesn't he ?
Double fives on skill rolls can be taken as a MA increase. :wink:

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Post by Longshot »

honestly, i have a oneturner in my Skaven team, but he is not the decisive player cos i have some great score with it (like 4/0).
So yes he score but he is not so important.
i ve seen other players with a OT but they never won cos of it.
In fact, it is a great player but sometimes it doesnt work:
Random even or a miisinf roll can let your OT down with the ball in opposite team hands =>not cool.
I think it is as great as a good blocker :)
Welf can have a OT but it is more difficult.

let them alive!!!

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Post by sean newboy »

I voted its just fine. I had a team with one but most of my teams have never even had the option to do it. My gutter runner was more useful as a target than anything else.

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Post by Stefan »

To [b]neoliminal[/b]:

Sorry, stupid question. :oops:
Of course... How couls I forget... :oops:

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