AV 7 teams

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 1:10 pm

I hope this is the right forum to mention this. Those of you who like teams like the Amazons and Norse, how do you find them to play? They seem to take a hell of a lot of punishment and don't appear to be any better than an Empire team but with one less AV. Basically I can't see the point of them. Please someone correct my negative thinking on this. I like the models and like to see all races represented but on competitive terms I don't see how they are competitive. Skaven on the other hand are very competitive because what they lack in stickability they make up in pace, cost (and so TR) and get to choose physical skills on a double. Likewise Wood Elves come with an AG of 4 which is an awesome start. Laters DD.

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 2:00 pm

I hope this is the right forum to mention this. Those of you who like teams like the Amazons and Norse, how do you find them to play? They seem to take a hell of a lot of punishment and don't appear to be any better than an Empire team but with one less AV. Basically I can't see the point of them. Please someone correct my negative thinking on this. I like the models and like to see all races represented but on competitive terms I don't see how they are competitive. Skaven on the other hand are very competitive because what they lack in stickability they make up in pace, cost (and so TR) and get to choose physical skills on a double. Likewise Wood Elves come with an AG of 4 which is an awesome start. Laters DD.

Well, I've played Amazons for 30 games now, and I have to say that all that Dodge makes them pretty good at avoiding damage rather than taking it! Sure, the lack of MA7+ players can become a sticking point, but they offer a flexibility no other team can match. Every player can hit (ST3), every player can survive a ruck (Dodge), and every player can get Block and Dodge with just one skill roll. This advantages disappears over time as other players pick up Tackle, but Tackle isn't very widespread over here. Only a few players per team have it. And the Amazons have amazingly cheap re-rolls.

I haven't played Norse beyond one-off games, but I've seen some successful Norse teams. Everyone's a hitter, and they're strong out of the box. Sure, this advantage wears over time, because everyone picks up Block and then you have to fall back on that AV7. But Norse have those great Blitzers to spice things up. Block, Frenzy, and Jump Up - I mean, what a skill set!

I guess it depends on the coach. Me, I can't see the point of Skaven! I'd much rather have Dodge or Block than MA+1 as a starting skill, so I consider their Linemen among the worst starting Linemen in the game. Gutter Runners are a great addition, but the roster just doesn't have the overall flexibility of the Amazons or the hitting power of the Norse. If it wasn't for mutations and overall slimey feel, I'd see no reason to play Skaven at all! I feel similarly about Wood Elves, if only because they're so damn expensive and take so long to develop. The Catchers and Wardancers are great, but I'd rather have 6337 Dodge players at 50K, I think.

Give one side a try! You'll be glad you did, especially if it's the Amazons. Trust me

-Chet

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 3:15 pm

I have been playing an Amazon team in my local league, and I have to say that having dodge all round is a very powerful team base. Many of the other coaches have been complaining that it is not fair, and that they want to play Amazons in the next tournament - I put that down to them over reacting to my beating all but one team in the league.
The Spike! magazine Final is tomorrow, and I am playing against a Wood Elf team that has just come off a 5-0 win over Skaven in the semis. I n all honesty I fell I am the underdog even if the rest of the league does not share thsi view.
So basically in my view Amazons are a strong starting team and, like Acerak said, they can fill in at any position and are pretty hard to get on the ground. I have have had a few games where I got hurt, but for the most part they avoid injury very well.

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 3:22 pm

I have thought of Amazons if only because I think the models are great, but I might just give them a go in the next couple of seasons. My teams for next season are already sorted. The Ratboys I am surprised you don't think much of. Personally I can't stand Skaven and so have found their success in my Leagues particularly irritating. The quick pass hand-off score routine is so awkward to play against. Because their linemen and so cheap they seem to be worth, when you can give them it, skills like dirty player, razor sharp claws etc just to damage other squads. Wood Elves definately appear to be to be a patience team! Laters DD.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:35 pm

Go with Amazons,the models are nice they can all get block,dodge quickly,I prefer to use them over any of my sides,

I had trouble starting them when they rolled riots in each of their 3 openers which lost them 15 turns in total, but theyve come back good,lost 4-2 (TR 118 v 160) against High Elves,but won there last two,scored 3 in both,last match defeated a 148 rated Dwarf team( I was 128)

And the players are cheap so if they die its not to hard to replace them

Spyke · Post by **Spyke** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:21 am

Amazons (as a TR100 team) rule the field here. I've only been playing with them for a couple of months now (basically since I saw Chet playing them at BBRes) and have yet to lose with them, having played about 9 or 10 games (against Orcs / Wood Elves / Dark Elves / Norse / Dwarves). Having 4 blitzers with block & dodge on the front line is great, and getting Stand Firm on them is a big plus. If they don't go down their AV 7 isn't anything to worry about.

Having said all that, I'm currently in turn 4 against another Wood Elf team, and he has only 5 not in the BH/SI bin. AV 7 here is a big problem.

Spyke.

Hedgehog · Post by **Hedgehog** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:30 pm

We haven't got any Amazon teams in our league yet, but our leagur rules have one change for them: they can only get block on a double, so as to prevent them from having an entire team with both block and dodge after a few games.

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:48 pm

I am being converted. That's a bit harsh isn't it HedgeHog? Laters DD.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:20 pm

Hedgehog wrote:, they can only get block on a double, so as to prevent them from having an entire team with both block and dodge after a few games.

That is pretty harsh imo, just take a few guys with tackle and use them in hit squads to start reducing their numbers, if you have players with tackle then AV7 dodge teams are not that hard even with block

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:23 pm

Well..Amazons are probably amongst the strongest out of the blocks..ST3 and Dodge across the board is awesome. I'm gonna play them in this forthcoming A'Dam tourney. There may even be a case that they're too strong for tourney play, 3x Blodge on the line and 40K re-rolls??
Oh yes Amazonian babes!

P.S. Thads, Norse, Longfang and all you other short-legged coaches that think that a few slow Longbeards will tip the balance just because of Tackle are due a wake up call!

Bitch power is coming...... Be afraid....

mrinprophet · Post by **mrinprophet** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:31 am

I am beginning to think along the same lines as DW. I believe that Amazons did pretty well at Resurrection and they might be the best team out of the block. My question is how are they over the long term. Perhaps only Chet could answer that.

Post by **Thadrin** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:19 pm

Deathwing - Them's fightin' words pilgrim. Bring it on.

ON the note of AV7 teams, I played against one last night: our league is running a summer league to test out the kicking rules (I will give them this...they did make the WHOLE half interesting, so they achieve their primary goal. Noone got to attempt a kick though.)

1 game Norse against my rookie 4 Blitzer-4 Black Orc Orc team.
I think I broke armour something like 65% of the time in the first half. This is of course good, and way beyond what should be expected when lacking Mighty Blow.
I think though, through the entire game I must have set a new record for the number of Knockouts in onne game.
my grand total at the end of the game was, give or take, 9 KOs. 2 Casualties (1 saved dead Valkyrie). If anyone can better getting 9 KOs in one game with that few casualties I'll be amazed.
The gits killed one of my Black Orcs too. RIP Butch Casualty. With a name like that I was kinda asking for it though. I lost when one of the two Black Orcs that made it to the end of the game managed to double pow-skull while my ball carrier was exposed. Dumb, dumb, dumb mistake.

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:33 pm

There may even be a case that they're too strong for tourney play, 3x Blodge on the line and 40K re-rolls??

Oy, who the heck puts his Blitzers on the line? No, son, that's what Linewomen are for!

Umm, let's see. Assorted other questions...

* Long-term value: I played my test league Amazon team for 19 games. They topped out at TR 216, I think. They went 18-1 in a small league. I think they have good long-term value, if only because you can buy a basic player who starts with Dodge for 50K. Be warned, though - once word of your success gets out, opponents will start loading up on Tackle. And it will hurt.

* Tournament play: I think Amazons play very well in the hands of a good coach. Overall, the value in Dodge really isn't on the defensive side of the ball. Believe it or not, a one-die Block against an Amazon is just as likely to break AV as it would against an AV8 Human Lineman: 5 out of 18. The difference is the number of times the Amazon is still standing to do something in the offensive turn. And in the offensive turn, that free dodge re-roll gives you a lot of flexibility.

* Best out of the box? Hmm, that's tough. I think Orc, Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Undead, Norse, and Lizardman teams are also very good at TR 100. And Humans aren't far behind. All that Dodge is useful, sure. But sure is all that AV9 and ST4, all that Block and Tackle and AV9, all that ST4 and Block and Tackle and AV9, all that Regenerate and ST5 and Block and Dodge, all that Block, and all that ST4 and Dodge and Stunty! So I think they're good out of the box, but to say they're the best out of the box is a stretch, IMO.

The low re-roll price is a great kicker. Really, though, once you have Sure Hands, what do you use them on? Not much. I don't re-roll too many pushes

Cheers!

-Chet

Spyke · Post by **Spyke** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:02 pm

Deathwing wrote:Well..Amazons are probably amongst the strongest out of the blocks..ST3 and Dodge across the board is awesome. I'm gonna play them in this forthcoming A'Dam tourney. There may even be a case that they're too strong for tourney play, 3x Blodge on the line and 40K re-rolls??
Oh yes Amazonian babes!

P.S. Thads, Norse, Longfang and all you other short-legged coaches that think that a few slow Longbeards will tip the balance just because of Tackle are due a wake up call!
Bitch power is coming...... Be afraid....

Gee whiz, looks like I converted Deathwing to the Amazonian cause. Maybe I shoulda kept my big trap shut

Spyke.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 7:55 am

Sounds like that Amsterdam tournament should have a (chaos)dwarf team to shoot down the amazon.

Talk Fantasy Football

AV 7 teams

AV 7 teams

Amazons

Converted