Perfect Defence : can we use players who were on the bench ?

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:20 am

No so absurd, I can picture the kicker kicking the ball then running off quickly while another player runs on...

frogbear · Post by **frogbear** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:58 am

We had a situation where the kicker set himself on the front line after the perfect defence was rolled.

Now does the kick skill still work as he is now in a tackle zone?

I believe it is in the same vein.

IMO until there is an official ruling, I would take a 'reorganize' to mean re-setting up what is there into a different position. At first substituting from the bench appears reasonable, however seeing they are not part of the original set up, I cannot see how they can be part of the reorganization.

If it stated "reset" your defense, then fair enough, however reorganize by the literal sense would not include this.

Dark_Soul · Post by **Dark_Soul** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:16 am

frogbear wrote:We had a situation where the kicker set himself on the front line after the perfect defence was rolled.

Now does the kick skill still work as he is now in a tackle zone?

Yep, as the Kick skill will have already been used.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:09 am

So therefore the "able to take kicker off the pitch" issue isn't an issue at all since you can move him to an invalid position and still use it...

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:11 am

that isn't the issue imo ian

the issue is that he is off the pitch and you can't hit him

Cestodas · Post by **Cestodas** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:48 pm

Never used subs on perfect defence in our league. Sounds absurd to do so, and even more absurd with the kicker issues this raises.

Heck, we've always played with the rule that if the kick skill was used to modify the scatter roll of the kick off AND a perfect defence is rolled, then the kicker would still have to be placed in a position according to the kick skill when reorganizing, ie. not in the wide zones or on the line of scrimmage.

Gropah · Post by **Gropah** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:36 pm

I wonder how Cyanide has interpreted it...

dwarfrunner · Post by **dwarfrunner** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:04 pm

Cestodas wrote: Heck, we've always played with the rule that if the kick skill was used to modify the scatter roll of the kick off AND a perfect defence is rolled, then the kicker would still have to be placed in a position according to the kick skill when reorganizing, ie. not in the wide zones or on the line of scrimmage.

The other part of this interesting problem, is that when you use perfect defence, your team must still be setup in a legal formation once the reorganization is complete. Therefore, should the requirements for the kick skill not be fulfilled for the kick skill to be used.

This brings up another problem, the kick skill is supposed to be used before the kick-off table is rolled. But if you roll "bad kick", should you be allowed to change your mind?

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:31 am

dwarfrunner wrote: This brings up another problem, the kick skill is supposed to be used before the kick-off table is rolled. But if you roll "bad kick", should you be allowed to change your mind?

Who cares when you play LRB5 where there is no bad kick, only high kick!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:32 am

Dwarfpete wrote:Yes, I believe You mean the section about substitutes.
"You may not substitute fit players for injured players or players that have been sent off while a drive is in progress. The only time that you may add reserves is when you are setting up after a touchdown has been scored, or when setting up after half time or for overtime."
IMO the drive starts with the end of the kick-off, when all results of the kick-off-table are done and the ball comes to rest. So I would agree in a complete change of personal.

This saves me a lot of typing. I do not agree with Ian's first post (need to see if he changed his mind later). But due to the rule of substitution I would say the rules do NOT allow you to pull players off the bench for Perfect Defense.

Galak

Gropah · Post by **Gropah** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:41 am

In other words: the drive starts when the ball is first placed on the field?

Dark_Soul · Post by **Dark_Soul** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:03 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:
Dwarfpete wrote:Yes, I believe You mean the section about substitutes.
"You may not substitute fit players for injured players or players that have been sent off while a drive is in progress. The only time that you may add reserves is when you are setting up after a touchdown has been scored, or when setting up after half time or for overtime."
IMO the drive starts with the end of the kick-off, when all results of the kick-off-table are done and the ball comes to rest. So I would agree in a complete change of personal.
This saves me a lot of typing. I do not agree with Ian's first post (need to see if he changed his mind later). But due to the rule of substitution I would say the rules do NOT allow you to pull players off the bench for Perfect Defense.

So you're disagreeing with Dwarfpete?

frogbear · Post by **frogbear** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:43 am

Thanks Galak

Any possibility on having you type up something regarding the kicker scenario?

- Can the kick skill still be used in a perfect defense if the kicker is set up in an 'illegal' position to use the kick skill after perfect defense?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:33 am

Dark_Soul wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
Dwarfpete wrote:Yes, I believe You mean the section about substitutes.
"You may not substitute fit players for injured players or players that have been sent off while a drive is in progress. The only time that you may add reserves is when you are setting up after a touchdown has been scored, or when setting up after half time or for overtime."
IMO the drive starts with the end of the kick-off, when all results of the kick-off-table are done and the ball comes to rest. So I would agree in a complete change of personal.
This saves me a lot of typing. I do not agree with Ian's first post (need to see if he changed his mind later). But due to the rule of substitution I would say the rules do NOT allow you to pull players off the bench for Perfect Defense.
Gah ... I didn't see that Dwarfpete typed all the right things and then in my opinion got the answer wrong.

The drive definitely does not in my opinion start with the kick-off being done. IF this was true than a Secret Weapon player that was KO'd during the kick-off event would NOT be ejected by Secret Weapon. DEFINITELY NOT how it works.

When you roll the dice for the kick-off the drive starts. Jervis is allowing us to make clarifications to the LRB 6.0 still (just no rule changes). So we could easily put "on the field already" into the Perfect Defense description.

Galak

So you're disagreeing with Dwarfpete?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:35 am

frogbear wrote:Thanks Galak

Any possibility on having you type up something regarding the kicker scenario?

- Can the kick skill still be used in a perfect defense if the kicker is set up in an 'illegal' position to use the kick skill after perfect defense?

At the point of Perfect Defense the Kick skill has already been used ... so I'd agree with Ian ... no problems moving the Kicker anywhere on the field with Perfect Defense.

Galak