Claw - any armour roll of 8 or more

[Ravenal]

Seems some people are not realizing that Claw does work on AV8 and along with MB is basically +1 to both armor and injury against AV8. I can't say what percentage that is, but there are a lot AV8 players total.

Good point.

About the 23% player positions, its very difficulty to say % of players because the team player positions are skewed ... some teams start out as all linemen and whatnot. The point was more to tell the difference of % between AV8 and AV 9 players (21%). Might be better to count how many possible players in each team can be effected.

[Ravenal]

here we go, of course someone had already put this up in excel:


source: http://bbminis.blogspot.com/2009/07/sho ... th-my.html

so, an upgrade from approx 7% casualty chance to 31% casualty chance ... shouldn't the upgradable % be closer to double or triple (21%) rather than over x4?

[GalakStarscraper]

so, an upgrade from approx 7% casualty chance to 31% casualty chance ... shouldn't the upgradable % be closer to double or triple (21%) rather than over x4?

1 skill is around 7 ... 2 skills is around 14. In theory 3 skills would be around 21% but its 31% since Piling On has you go Prone that ups its multipler. I'm assuming that you are still talking only about the Claw interaction.

If the 3 skill combo is a problem in your league invest in Fend ... it removes the ability to use Piling On and then you can be happy.

My Slann LOS take Wrestle than Fend as their first two skills. The rest of the team ... I don't because if I'm playing correctly these LOS 3 skill killers don't get to hit me other than a blitz action.

Galak

[Ravenal]

1 skill is around 7 ... 2 skills is around 14. In theory 3 skills would be around 21% but its 31% since Piling On has you go Prone that ups its multipler. I'm assuming that you are still talking only about the Claw interaction.

... diminishing returns is the key word for happy balance friends.

If the 3 skill combo is a problem in your league invest in Fend ... it removes the ability to use Piling On and then you can be happy.

We'd all be happy if it was always league specific and you'd know all the other teams you are going to go up against ... but my play experience has mainly been a series of one off games, you never know who is going to beat you to pulp next time.

My Slann LOS take Wrestle than Fend as their first two skills. The rest of the team ... I don't because if I'm playing correctly these LOS 3 skill killers don't get to hit me other than a blitz action.

sure, they are happy campers ... but do you take fend on your treeman? CWs, longbeards, BOrcs and mummies? ... those are the targets over the course of the game rather than those sacrificial dummies you put on the LOS.

Yes, its an investment ... beasts or mino at 4 skills (block/jugger) and they do set themselves up for a foul next turn. Considering you can't use claw, MB or PO for the foul ... you have less % chance of causing the cas (adding the risk of being ejected - about the same iirc if you take away the ejection and add the blocking action for the prone guy)

Without the claw you still have 31% cas rate (after blocking) against AV7 people (thats 2 skills for an increase of x4 ...)

What the balance here is about is the SPP gain and the blood in blood bowl. You want people to die, good and fine and all... and you want to keep a fair balance between getting SPPs for TDs and CASs.

So, the question is, what SHOULD the cas% be? ... if its the current %, factoring everything into the mix then fine (my main objection is the imbalance claw creates between bashing teams - meaning I am lobbying for any armor roll of 9+ OR Claw can not be used with MB)

Other ideas might be: replace 1d for armor OR injury rolling with a d8 - this means you have to decide before you roll if you want MB to affect armor or injury, claw would do the same but i'd always just replace one of the armor dice with a d8 (it's just an idea ... haven't done the %) ... but like I say it all about what you want the % to be.

[GalakStarscraper]

Claw does exactly what it was intented to do. Remove players from high AV teams so that such teams don't continue to spiral in TV without injury.

The CAS% is right where it should be IMO. The blood in the game had to go up significantly to produce an on-pitch environment that allowed us to remove aging. Its the same reason the Apothecary was made worse.

As for the "lobbying" ... I guess you could be putting in an early start for any rule changes in like 2020 but given the BBRC is disbanded and the guy who did all the rulebook editing cannot do it anymore .... I'm not hopeful for your lobby efforts to work.

Galak

[Ravenal]

Claw does exactly what it was intented to do. Remove players from high AV teams so that such teams don't continue to spiral in TV without injury.

But currently it targets not just high AV but also average AV.

The CAS% is right where it should be IMO. The blood in the game had to go up significantly to produce an on-pitch environment that allowed us to remove aging. Its the same reason the Apothecary was made worse.

thumbs up on removing aging though

As for the "lobbying" ... I guess you could be putting in an early start for any rule changes in like 2020 but given the BBRC is disbanded and the guy who did all the rulebook editing cannot do it anymore .... I'm not hopeful for your lobby efforts to work.

hey, you can never start too soon

[GalakStarscraper]

Claw does exactly what it was intented to do. Remove players from high AV teams so that such teams don't continue to spiral in TV without injury.

But currently it targets not just high AV but also average AV.

No worse than the 3rd edition Claw did to thost AV levels and there was not much feeling that the skill was broken back then if memory serves.

Tom

[Grumbledook]

and low AV as well as the high and average AV...

of course the access to it wasn't as common as it was now, if this is just from cyanide then the lack of full implementation of inducements and races affects the validity of the claims

[Ravenal]

of course the access to it wasn't as common as it was now

Used to require a double for teams that had access to mutations so claw wasn't a "big" issue. I do agree that it's not a game winner but imo the cas % speak for themselves.

[plasmoid]

Actually, in the good old days, doubles was used on fang, to get that +4/+2 with piling on.

[GalakStarscraper]

but imo the cas % speak for themselves.

Yup and its says good job BBRC for keeping the game bloody and violent and fun.

Galak

[daloonieshaman]

I thought you were keeping it CUTTHROAT

[GalakStarscraper]

I thought you were keeping it CUTTHROAT

[Grumbledook]

of course the access to it wasn't as common as it was now

Used to require a double for teams that had access to mutations so claw wasn't a "big" issue. I do agree that it's not a game winner but imo the cas % speak for themselves.

well on fumbbl where there are loads of teams who play loads of games that environment produced plenty of teams with loads of doubles and as others have mentioned you could get razor sharp claws as well

even with those teams I didn't see the backlash of "it's broken" like has been seen on the cyanide forum, but we can point that at the teams they have selected to be in the game and lack of full inducements

there hasn't been the high volume of games played under the newest rules compared to the play testing from some of the earlier ones as there was no quick and easy digital way for people to test them out like before, so perhaps common opinion may change in the future at the moment though not an issue

certainly hasn't been over on stuntyleeg.com for instance

[Oxynot]

Before reading this thread I've only thought about claw by comparing to the old razor sharp claws and the like. And I have liked the fact that it doesn't make the AV7 players life any more precarious.

What I hadn't thought that it is also part of the solution to replace the disliked aging mechanic. So even if the cas percentage is a bit higher, it's nothing to be worried about. Not that I was worried even before I read this thread

Just wanted the point this out, since it was news to me, maybe it's news to others as well.