AG6 pointless?

[Wosret]

I look forward to getting an Ag6 Wardancer now.

she's mine already

[alternat]

Under previous versions Ag6 was pretty pointless but now it seems to be useful. I look forward to getting an Ag6 Wardancer now.

I had her, and she was devastating when she did not roll ones for leaping.

[Uldreg]

So on passing with ag6. Does a player with ag6 complete passes on 2+, 2+, 2+, 3+? According to the crp on pg 22 under fumbles any modified or unmodified 1 is a fumble. But it also say under passing that ag 6 completes a pass on a 1+, but that dice roll of 1 is always a failure. I thought this meant that ag completes passes at above, not on a 2+ 2+ 2+ 4+. Thanks for the help guys...

[Uldreg]

I have been searching for a while and think i found the answer to this. If i am correct then ag 6 succeeds on a 2+ 2+ 3+ 4+. and ag 5 succeeds on a 2+ 2+ 3+ 4+.

[Uldreg]

I have been searching for a while and think i found the answer to this. If i am correct then ag 6 succeeds on a 2+ 2+ 3+ 4+. and ag 5 succeeds on a 2+ 2+ 3+ 4+.

[Smurf]

AG6 is not worth the TV bloat. You are looking at an additional 40K for a player that can creep through TZones. As you have rightfully noted on the passing side AG6 is not better than AG5.

Sure the picking up the ball in multiple TZones will be easier but as it is limited situations. Useful but is it worth the extra 40K (note to get to AG6 you have had to spend 80K on the piece).

[funnyfingers]

AG 5 needs effective 2+
AG 6 needs effective 1+

The ball carrier is surrounded on all 4 corners like a normal cage.

To blitz the ball carrier,
AG 5 should need a roll on the dice as 4, while an AG 6 would need a 3. I think AG 6 would be worth it.

AG 7 is still 1+ for the effective roll.

[Smeborg]

Perhaps AG6 is worth it for cage-breaking? If you do not have a re-roll left for the current turn, AG6 dodges into a standard cage on a 3+. If you avoid Tackle, this is with dodge re-roll, so 8/9 chance of success, compared to 5/6 for the leap.

Dodging into (and picking up in) multiple tackle zones are not the only advantages. Passing from multiple tackle zones becomes better, as does catching a bouncing ball, or intercepting.

I have never had the luxury of an AG6 player, but I think I would take it for the fluff, if nothing else. And I consider it only an extra 2 points of TV (because the alternative is a normal skill).

All the best.

[Smurf]

AG6 passer vs AG5 passer is no real diference:

AG5 passes on a 2/2/3/4 and fumbling on 1/1/2/3
AG6 passes on a 2/2/3/4 and fumbling on 1/1/2/3

Add a tackle zone on the player and we get:

AG5 passes on a 2/3/4/5
AG6 passes on a 2/3/4/5

However the failures of fumbling with a tackle zone are the same:

AG5 fumbles on a 1/2/3/4
AG6 fumbles on a 1/2/3/4

Hence accurate and strong arm offset the higher band penalties.

[Smeborg]

Hi again, Smurf, I agree with what you say, but what I said was: "Passing from multiple tackle zones becomes better..." (not "in a single tackle zone..").

Thus with AG6 you gain the ability to pick up the ball on a 2+ in 2 tackle zones, as well as the ability to pass the ball when in 2 tackle zones also on a 2+. These are improvements on AG5, I believe.

While I have a preference, I remain open-minded on the question of whether AG6 should be taken. But surely there are many situations situations where AG6 is better than AG5, including:

- Dodging into 2 or more TZs
- Dodging away from D-Tackle (or P-Tail plus one or more TZs)
- Picking up the ball in 2 or more TZs (or in Pouring Rain plus one or more TZs)
- Passing in 2 or more TZs (or in Blinding Sun plus one or more TZs)
- Catching in 2 or more TZs (or in pouring rain plus one or more TZs)
- Catching a bouncing ball in 1 or more TZs (catching a bouncing ball in no TZs is relatively rare)
- Passing vs. 2 or more D-Pres (or 1 D-Pres plus TZs or B-Sun)
- Catching vs. 2 or more D-Pres (or 1 D-Pres plus TZs or P-Rain or bouncing ball)
- Intercepting
- Pass Blocking if it involves any of the above

Probably each coach will judge the likely frequency of such events based on his match experience and preferred play style.

All the best.

[Smurf]

I was just pointing out that AG6 is the same as AG5 despite have 0 tackle zones to 8 tackle zones when throwing.

But as for catching, intercepting, picking up the ball it has a slight edge.

[dode74]

- Dodging into 2 or more TZs Yes
- Dodging away from D-Tackle (or P-Tail plus one or more TZs) Yes
- Picking up the ball in 2 or more TZs (or in Pouring Rain plus one or more TZs) Yes
- Passing in 2 or more TZs (or in Blinding Sun plus one or more TZs) No
- Catching in 2 or more TZs (or in pouring rain plus one or more TZs) Yes
- Catching a bouncing ball in 1 or more TZs (catching a bouncing ball in no TZs is relatively rare) Yes
- Passing vs. 2 or more D-Pres (or 1 D-Pres plus TZs or B-Sun) No
- Catching vs. 2 or more D-Pres (or 1 D-Pres plus TZs or P-Rain or bouncing ball) Yes
- Intercepting Yes
- Pass Blocking if it involves any of the above Yes

Probably each coach will judge the likely frequency of such events based on his match experience and preferred play style.

All the best.

Colours mine.

Almost all right, but the passing ones are wrong.

Quick pass in 2 TZs:
Quick pass: +1
2 TZs: -2

AG5 (2+ agi roll)
Roll of:
1 = Fumble (natural 1)
2 = 2+1-2 = 1 = Fumble
3 = 3+1-2 = 2 = Accurate pass
4 = ....

AG6 (1+ agi roll)
Roll of:
1 = Fumble (natural 1)
2 = 2+1-2 = 1, which is equal to the requirement, BUT A MODIFIED 1 IS A FUMBLE.
3 = 3+1-2 = 2 = Accurate pass
4 = ....

In that situation both an AG5 and an AG6 player will succeed on 3+, but otherwise fumble. The same math applies whether we're talking about DPres, TZs, Blinding Sun, or whatever.

In ANY passing situation, AG5 is as good as AG6.

[Smeborg]

Thanks, guys. Points taken.

So we come back to the early part of this thread, which is that AG6 is of little value on a Thrower, but may well be worth considering on other player types. That's how I think of if, anyway.

[daloonieshaman]

AG6 for a 5th roll on a blitzer with all the attack skills I could see that

[Smurf]

AG6 for a 5th roll on a blitzer with all the attack skills I could see that

I see the idea but I don't see the over all benefit.

AG6 means the player could breeze in and out of 2 tackle zones and even go through 3 on a 3+. I mean this is what I have heard about Pass Block... don't do it, won't be used and yet AG6 is 'that's a must'.

I considered that too many stat increases are bad for players too. The skills are generally better. Maybe 2 stat increases are good, some Move 10 dudes are good, but AG6 I don't see being that good. It would create a target for your opponent to squish though.