Piling On when scoring TD?

[Manuel]

Hi there!

Just a short question. What would happen if someone with Piling On were blitzing another player, succes making him prone, followed up in the block, and decided to reroll the Armour or Injury roll?

Until this moment I thought that the only exception to the rule "a player with the ball in the opposing TD zone will always score" was the Blood Lust rule. But now I am not so sure... Is it turnover because the player with the ball is prone after rerolling the Armour roll? Does he score and also repeat the roll, even if losing the ball in the process?

Let me know what you think about that please.

[lunchmoney]

Do you mean if the ball carrier were to blitz someone into the EZ, then follow up, then pile on? As soon as you follow up a TD is scored, so you cant pile on. Page 15 of the rule book

SCORING TOUCHDOWNS IN YOUR TURN
A team scores a touchdown during their turn when one of their
players is standing in the opposing team"s End Zone while
holding the ball at the end of any of your players' Actions. As
soon as this happens, play stops,...

But if you did, then it would be a Turnover as per the list of Turnovers on page 7 of the rule book.

TURNOVERS
Normally, a turn only ends when all of the players in the team
have performed an Action. However, certain events cause the
turn to end before all of the players have taken an Action. These
events are called turnovers. The following events cause a
turnover:
1. A player on the moving team is Knocked Down (being injured
by the crowd or being Placed Prone is not a turnover unless it is
a player from the active team holding the ball; e.g. skills like
Diving Tackle, Piling On and Wrestle count as being Placed
Prone) or

[El Hombre]

Seems to me that you can't use piling on, since you were standing in the endzone, at the end of your action (blocking or blitzing), with the ball in your hands.

plus, why would you want to use piling on? since using it means you go down, and you don't score... TD gives 3SPP, cas only 2.

[Manuel]

Yeah, I was referring to the first case. The ballcarrier throwing a block.

I didn't have a copy of the rulebook, but in the text you have posted I see there states "at the end of any of your players' actions". So I guess it would be a turnover, as the blocking/blitzing actions wouldn't have ended yet (you cpuld keep moving in a blitz action), wouldn't it? But I think I remember it being an automatic TD if at any given time a player has the ball in the TD zone... not just at the end of an action (you cannot walk with the ball across the TD zone and get out with your last move).

The idea came to me just as a random thought... but I can think of more than one scenario where I could prefer killing someone than scoring. Think about a match where you are already winning by 2 TD, and you have just broken the armour of a Ag5 wardancer, but only ko'd him...

[Vanguard]

you cannot walk with the ball across the TD zone and get out with your last move

Yup, this is true although I had to double-check to find out why.

If a player from the moving team enters (or was already in) the opposing team’s End Zone and has or obtains the ball, then he may not voluntarily leave the End Zone for any reason during the same action nor may he hand-off or pass the ball

That said, the earlier part also holds true

A team scores a touchdown during their turn when one of their players is standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding the ball at the end of any of your players' Actions.

Not sure on the the timing, but I'd say that if the player still has the option to Pile-On, then their action hasn't ended yet. It's still part of the Block (or Blitz) and therefore the TD has not yet occurred.

However, I get the feeling that it's a loophole rather than a deliberate design decision.

[Darkson]

Given that if a Frenzied Ball Carrier pushes someone and follows them into the EZ they don't get the 2nd Block but score at that point, I'd use the same argument against the use of PO.

Not saying that's correct from a strict reading (I'm neither for or against atm) but I'd clarify it/house rule it as such.

[Loki]

Given that if a Frenzied Ball Carrier pushes someone and follows them into the EZ they don't get the 2nd Block but score at that point, I'd use the same argument against the use of PO.

Not saying that's correct from a strict reading (I'm neither for or against atm) but I'd clarify it/house rule it as such.

+1

[Vanguard]

Given that if a Frenzied Ball Carrier pushes someone and follows them into the EZ they don't get the 2nd Block but score at that point

Interesting, is that based on the FAQ in CRP? As I read it, that refers specifically to the ball carrier being pushed into the EZ by a Frenzied player rather than a Frenzied ball carrier following up.

[Darkson]

1st Block action is finished after the pushback/follow-up, at which point a TD is scored, so there is no 2nd Block.

[Vanguard]

1st Block action is finished after the pushback/follow-up, at which point a TD is scored, so there is no 2nd Block.

Hmm, I'd have said that Frenzy allows you to make two Blocks as part of a single Blitz (or Block) action rather than two distinct actions. The rules are pretty clear that each player can only have a single action - although that is always subject to overruling from specific skill rules I guess.

The rules on scoring in your own turn versus your opponents turn are different:

Scoring Touchdowns In Your Turn
A team scores a touchdown during their turn when one of their players is standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding the ball at the end of any of your players' Actions.
Scoring Touchdowns In The Opponent's Turn
If one of your players is holding the ball in the opposing team's End Zone at any point during your opponent's turn then your team scores a touchdown immediately

If an opposing ball-carrier enters the endzone on your turn then it is an immediate TD. This interrupts your turn, hence why a Frenzied player does not get his second block.
Your own ball-carrier does not score until the end of his action, so I'd argue the second block can (and must) take place.

Does raise another interesting rules conflict. If a frenzied Ball-Carrier blitzes into the EZ and pushes his opponent out (back onto the pitch) can he follow-up? Frenzy says he must, but Scoring rules say he cannot leave EZ.

[lunchmoney]

Does raise another interesting rules conflict. If a frenzied Ball-Carrier blitzes into the EZ and pushes his opponent out (back onto the pitch) can he follow-up? Frenzy says he must, but Scoring rules say he cannot leave EZ.

Going off topic and already covered here viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31221&p=554165

[Vanguard]

Going off topic and already covered here viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31221&p=554165

Sorry, not trying to derail thread. Getting back to the original question, based on the timing of scoring in your own turn and supported by your link, the ball carrier does not score until the end of their action. Piling On is part of the player's action and so still a valid option even if they are in the endzone.

[Smeborg]

Going off topic and already covered here viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31221&p=554165

Sorry, not trying to derail thread. Getting back to the original question, based on the timing of scoring in your own turn and supported by your link, the ball carrier does not score until the end of their action. Piling On is part of the player's action and so still a valid option even if they are in the endzone.

I support this view.

[Wifflebat]

Has it been established that a player can stay in the end zone and keep moving (possibly even going for it and knocking themselves over)? If that's legal, then piling on should be.