Why did Elves evolve to 4 AG across the board?

celticgriffon · Post by **celticgriffon** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:29 pm

Hey everyone,

A few players in my group have been considering running a tournament. One of the possibilities we were exploring was running a Dungeonbowl event.

This led me to re-read the Elves, Dwarves, Dungeonbowl rulebook. I haven't looked too closely at the 2nd edition stuff in years. It brought back a lot of memories.

One of the key things I noticed was Elves had only 3 AG except for their catchers. They also had a special rule which usually meant they stayed KO'd or Stunned (i.e. this was the reserves box in that edition) for a bit longer than the other races. They had to fix their hair and stuff.

I was just curious how and why things have evolved to our current state. AG 4 is so dominant in the game in my opinion.

Cheers,
Michael

RoterSternHochdahl · Post by **RoterSternHochdahl** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:45 pm

Very interesting question.

Yet, you have to consider that the concept of Agility has completely changed in more than one way since. Dodging/Tackling works very differentl now, so does passing and catching (and they had good modifiers for that across the board didn't they); don't even mention the turnover-rule if one of those roles goes wrong.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:48 pm

They also all had a +1 CL and +TS (basically +1 to Catch and Throw), accept for the Catchers (+2CL) and Throwers (+2TS), so during the simplication to 3rd ed when CL and TS were dropped I guess it was decided to make them AG4 to keep them as the best passing teams.
Most of the race-specific injuries rules were also removed (see Skeletons for example).

I sometime feel that, although 3rd edition (and by extension the LRBs) are by far the much superior rule set, we have lost some really good (fluffy) rules along the way (Dark Elves not liking the Sun, Norse ignoring blizzards etc).

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:23 pm

Darkson wrote:....so during the simplication to 3rd ed when CL and TS were dropped I guess it was decided to make them AG4 to keep them as the best passing teams.

The biggest FUBAR in the history of Blood Bowl....

(Hopefully not your fault.... )

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:25 pm

Yep, not enough gradation in the stat profiles.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:21 pm

Digger Goreman wrote:(Hopefully not your fault.... )

Nothing to do with me at all.

fidius · Post by **fidius** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:54 pm

A reasonable middle ground might be to take away A access from elf Linos.

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:36 pm

fidius wrote:A reasonable middle ground might be to take away A access from elf Linos.

Fairly hefty mid-high TV nerf and a massive survivability one too. Personally I wonder if a change is even necessary.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:53 pm

Solution is to add two skills :

Agile
This player counts as having an extra point of AG when dodging.

Cool
This player counts as having an extra point of AG for everything except dodging.

celticgriffon · Post by **celticgriffon** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:08 pm

Lots of great discussion here everyone. Thank you.

If Linemen were AG 3 would that perhaps solve things a bit? It would make the Elf teams rely more heavily on their more expensive positionals.

So many other rules I had forgot about. MA and SP ability made up total movement with a bunch of restrictions if you used SP in the turn... Shoulder Charging (i.e. Blitz) was at -1 ST. You could leap over prone players. Passing the ball ended the turn.. Etc... Perhaps we need a full on history of the game evolution. It could be a fabulous read.

Michael

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:08 pm

Darkson wrote:They also all had a +1 CL and +TS (basically +1 to Catch and Throw), accept for the Catchers (+2CL) and Throwers (+2TS), so during the simplication to 3rd ed when CL and TS were dropped I guess it was decided to make them AG4 to keep them as the best passing teams.
Most of the race-specific injuries rules were also removed (see Skeletons for example).

I sometime feel that, although 3rd edition (and by extension the LRBs) are by far the much superior rule set, we have lost some really good (fluffy) rules along the way (Dark Elves not liking the Sun, Norse ignoring blizzards etc).

Maybe cyanide can stick in a special rule for each team

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:22 am

I played in MBBL2 with the Amazons / Norse liking or not liking different weather rules. It was actually really not fun. I guess I am at the extreme end of balance / zany spectrum, but games were essentially decided by the Weather table. If there is one thing that isn't fun it is sitting down for a two hour game and immediately knowing you are going to lose because of the first random thing rolled.

RoterSternHochdahl · Post by **RoterSternHochdahl** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:28 pm

Joemanji wrote:If there is one thing that isn't fun it is sitting down for a two hour game and immediately knowing you are going to lose because of the first random thing rolled.

By the way this is exactly the argument for narrowing the tiers

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:38 pm

RoterSternHochdahl wrote:
Joemanji wrote:If there is one thing that isn't fun it is sitting down for a two hour game and immediately knowing you are going to lose because of the first random thing rolled.
By the way this is exactly the argument for narrowing the tiers

It's also the argument for keeping them as they are when different skill levels play each other. Let's not go there now, eh?

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:58 pm

You should have read VoodooMikes recent post on the subject.
But let's indeed not go there.
Cheers
Martin

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