Ball & Chain with 'Block' Skill

[Regash]

Ball & Chain (Extraordinary)
Players armed with a Ball & Chain can only take Move Actions. To move or Go For It, place the throw-in template over the player facing up or down the pitch or towards either sideline. Then roll a D6 and move the player one square in the indicated direction; no Dodge roll is required if you leave a tackle zone. If this movement takes the player off the pitch, he is beaten up by the crowd in the same manner as a player who has been pushed off the pitch. Repeat this process for each and every square of normal movement the player has. You may then GFI using the same process if you wish. If during his Move Action he would move into an occupied square then the player will throw a block following normal blocking rules against whoever is in that square, friend or foe (and it even ignores Foul Appearance!). A Prone or Stunned player in an occupied square is pushed back and an Armour roll is made to see if he is injured, instead of the block being thrown at him. The player must follow up if he will push back another player, and will then carry on with his move as described above.[/color] If the player is ever Knocked Down or Placed Prone, roll immediately for injury (no Armour roll is required). Stunned results for any Injury rolls for the Ball & Chain player are always treated as KO’d. A Ball & Chain player may use the Grab skill (as if a Block Action was being used) with his blocks (if he has learned it!). A Ball & Chain player may never use the Diving Tackle, Frenzy, Kick-Off Return, Leap, Pass Block or Shadowing skills.

Nope, the skill says it pretty clear.
For each point of MA you make one roll on the throw-in-template.
You can increase this number of rolls by using GFI.
The whole movement of the B&C player has nothing to do with blocks or blitzes, it is just a move-action that may or may not require the use of block dice.
Again, B&C players just MOVE, read the first sentence in the skill description.
There is nothing about paying anything with whatever.
Actually, the skill even reads like you can't choose to make LESS rolls then your MA is, it clearly says for "each and every square of normal movement".

[mawph]

One thing you're missing from your quoting which is causing the issue is one word from the final piece of red quoted text.

"if"

This suggests that when there is no push back as part of the block, then there is no follow up (therefore has a point of move been utilised?)

Edit: note I have said "suggests" not "explicitly means". I'm not really adding anything to the conclusion, just highlighting the issue

[Bakunin]

@Regash
You are not engaging with what im sayning.

Yes its clear that it can try to move into a 'occupied square'. But its not clear what happens if it does not follow-up and is still on the pitch.

GFI rule:
When a player takes any Action apart from a Block, he may try to
move one or two extra squares over and above the number that
he is normally allowed to move – this is called ‘going for it’ or
GFI. NOTE: if a rule refers to a player’s ‘normal movement’ do
not include the one or two GFI squares.
Roll a D6 for the player after he has moved each extra square.

On a roll of 1 the player trips up and is Knocked Down in the
square that he moved to. Roll to see if he was injured (see page
11). On any other roll the player moves without mishap. If the
player is Knocked Down then his team suffers a turnover and
their turn ends immediately.

One thing is sure, you only roll for GFI after you have "moved each extra square"
If you have not moved a extra square, you have not made a GFI and dont roll for it. You should therefore be able to try again.

[Regash]

Yes, you have moved!
Movement on a B&C means a roll on the throw-in-template.
The skill says that you follow up IF you push back. This means the rules acknowledge the possibility of not following up but condsider the square of movement spent.

Let's say your B&C has block and you GFI one square. You roll on the throw-in-template. You would move into an occupied square, so you roll the block dice for a both down result.
It doesn't matter if your opponent falls or stay up, you didn't push anything and stay were you are. Since you rolled on the throw-in-template, you have "spent" the movement and now roll for GFI.
You roll a 1 and you go down, even if the block didn't bring you down, on a 2+ you stay on your feet and now have to decide if you wanna GFI again or leave it be.

Now let's get away from B&C, let's say it's an ordinary player with block blitzing, using the GFI for that square for the block.
Would you really not roll for GFI if the result is both down and you stay in the square you were?
I'd insist on my opponent to roll for GFI becasue he made the GFI for the block, not for a push back.

[dode74]

Nowhere does it say that, when trying to move into a enemy player, and if you dont move that square, you still pay 1 point of mv

It doesn't say anything about it costing a point of MA anywhere. What it says is this:

• Repeat this process for each and every square of normal movement the player has.

So if you have MA3 you can repeat the process 3 times. You don't have to move to be able to block again, but the limit on the number of blocks you can make is dictated by the MA.

[Bakunin]

We must agree to disagree, but I think you guys are reading a lot between the lines.

Nowhere does it say that, when trying to move into a enemy player, and if you dont move that square, you still pay 1 point of mv

It doesn't say anything about it costing a point of MA anywhere. What it says is this:

• Repeat this process for each and every square of normal movement the player has.

So if you have MA3 you can repeat the process 3 times. You don't have to move to be able to block again, but the limit on the number of blocks you can make is dictated by the MA.

okay, but that sentence implies that you move squares - as normal.

Let's say your B&C has block and you GFI one square. You roll on the throw-in-template. You would move into an occupied square, so you roll the block dice for a both down result.
It doesn't matter if your opponent falls or stay up, you didn't push anything and stay were you are. Since you rolled on the throw-in-template, you have "spent" the movement and now roll for GFI.
You roll a 1 and you go down, even if the block didn't bring you down, on a 2+ you stay on your feet and now have to decide if you wanna GFI again or
leave it be.

Now let's get away from B&C, let's say it's an ordinary player with block blitzing, using the GFI for that square for the block.
Would you really not roll for GFI if the result is both down and you stay in the square you were?
I'd insist on my opponent to roll for GFI becasue he made the GFI for the block, not for a push back.

I must repeat that the ball&chain dont blitz. It takes move actions. The GFI rules are clear cut. If you blitz you must roll for GFI, before taking the blitz-block.

"When a player takes any Action apart from a Block, he may try to
move one or two extra squares over and above the number that he is normally allowed to move (...) Roll a D6 for the player after he has moved each extra square".

There should be no discussion on this ruling. Nowhere does it say that the ball&chain makes GFI differently than other players.
So when moving you may try to GFI by moving a extra square. After you roll a D6. If you did'nt move the extra square (ball&chain choosing 'both down'), this 'try' was unsuccessful. Giving you can try to move two extra square, the ball&chain can try again.

This may not have been the intent or it may not be Blood Bowl-common-sense, but this is how the GFI rules are written.
My point being, that the rules should be rewritten (or at least the ball&chain rule).

[Darkson]

"To move or Go For It, place the throw-in template over the player facing up or down the pitch or towards either sideline. Then roll a D6 and move the player one square in the indicated direction;"
and
"If during his Move Action he would move into an occupied square then the player will throw a block following normal blocking rules against whoever is in that square, friend or foe (and it even ignores Foul Appearance!)."
seem to make it pretty clear that he's already "taken" the move, even if he physically can't move, so must make the GFI roll.

[dode74]

okay, but that sentence implies that you move squares - as normal.

No it doesn't. It simply says he may throw as many blocks as he has MA.

[Bakunin]

okay, but that sentence implies that you move squares - as normal.

No it doesn't. It simply says he may throw as many blocks as he has MA.

yes you must "Repeat this process for each and every square of normal movement the player has" when you " place the throw-in template over the player facing up or down the pitch or towards either sideline. Than roll a D6 and move the player one square in the indicated direction"

[Regash]

Or throw a block if the square is occupied!
Don't forget that fact!

[dode74]

okay, but that sentence implies that you move squares - as normal.

No it doesn't. It simply says he may throw as many blocks as he has MA.

yes you must "Repeat this process for each and every square of normal movement the player has" when you " place the throw-in template over the player facing up or down the pitch or towards either sideline. Than roll a D6 and move the player one square in the indicated direction"

And further down...

• If during his Move Action he would move into
  an occupied square then the player will throw a block following normal
  blocking rules against whoever is in that square, friend or foe (and it
  even ignores Foul Appearance!).

Where does "normal blocking rules" require that a player stop moving if he rolls Both Down and has the Block skill? All that does is prevent him from pushing back and following up, and since this is a move not a follow up the normal blocking rules do not prevent him from taking his next move.

[GalakStarscraper]

My interpretation of the rules.

The key sentence here is this for me:

Then roll a D6 and move the player one square in the indicated direction

IE a point of movement is burned each time you roll the D6. What happens after that (moving/blocking/blocking without moving) is irrelevant to the discussion of the question of "if the point of movement is spent".

[Loki]

My interpretation of the rules.

The key sentence here is this for me:

Then roll a D6 and move the player one square in the indicated direction

IE a point of movement is burned each time you roll the D6. What happens after that (moving/blocking/blocking without moving) is irrelevant to the discussion of the question of "if the point of movement is spent".

For what it's worth after Tom has spoken but it's a +1 to this from me.

[Bakunin]

My interpretation of the rules.

The key sentence here is this for me:

Then roll a D6 and move the player one square in the indicated direction

IE a point of movement is burned each time you roll the D6. What happens after that (moving/blocking/blocking without moving) is irrelevant to the discussion of the question of "if the point of movement is spent".

But that sentence still says: "move the player one square". So your interpretation is that the part about moving, is more important than: move where?, how long or how many squares? etc.. My interpretation is that the sentence has a complet mening.
But even if I would agree, this stil does not solve the GFI problem. The GFI rule is crystal clear, you roll 1D6 after you have moved a extra square, and trying (as the rule stats, you try to GFI) to move into a occupied square and not following up, is not moving a extra square. Key word being "extra": as something being different or more than the starting position.
So thats puts us back at square one - no pun intended

[Regash]

With a B&C player rolling on the template IS moving one square.
No matter what the outcome might be.

If GFI is your concern, why don't you thnk about a blitz action for a moment. How do you handle GFI there?
Let's say the blitzing player has used up all of his normal movement. According to the rules he must now GFI to make the block, right?
Let's say the out come of the block is a both down, the blitzer can't make any followup move.
Will you make him roll for GFI?

A player that is taking a Blitz Action may ‘go for it’ in order to make a block. Roll a D6 for the player after declaring that he will make the block. On a roll of 1 the player is Knocked Down as described above. On any other roll the player makes the block without mishap. If the player is Knocked Down then his team suffers a turnover and the team’s turn ends immediately.

Of course you will!
It even sounds like the GFI for a block has to be rolled BEFORE the block takes place.
I think we can assume that B&C works exactly like that.

I'd say the correct handling of a B&C player would be:

1. put thow-in-template over the player in desired direction
2. roll a D6 to see where he goes to
3. if target square is not empty roll block
4. repeat steps 1 to 3 until all points of MA are used up
5. decide if you wanna go for it
6. make GFI roll
7. go through steps 1 to 3 if GFI was successful
8. go back to step 5 if you can still GFI

I left out all the posibilities for turnovers...