Pro on a KO Blitz AND the Catch

[Darkson]

Team A rolls a Blitz, and uses a player with Pro to blitz the square where the ball will land. The blitzer rolls Double Skulls, successfully rolls Pro and rerolls the block, pushing the defender out of the square and follows.

At the end of the Blitz turn, the ball lands and the player fails the catch.

Can they use Pro?

On one hand, Pro says it can be used once per turn.
On the other hand, the catch is after the Blitz turn but before the receiving players turn.

Wasn't something I'd ever thought of before (normally as I don't have pro on players apart from BGs and Vamps), but it came up in a question on the Cyanide forum.

[Regash]

As the Blitz!-result is described as a bonus turn, my first notion would be to say yes, you can use Pro both times.

But then, the Pro-player is actually catching the ball in the other teams turn! After the Blitz! has taken place, the receiving team starts their turn and the Pro player just happens to be in the right spot, but it's not his turn.

Unfortunately, the skill description only says "once per turn" but I assume this means his own turn.
So, second notion is to say no, you can't use Pro the second time.

*flipping coin*

No, he really shouldn't be able to use that second Pro as this is not his turn. Period.

[Darkson]

But then, the Pro-player is actually catching the ball in the other teams turn! After the Blitz! has taken place, the receiving team starts their turn and the Pro player just happens to be in the right spot, but it's not his turn.

That's incorrect - the receiving teams turn doesn't start until after the ball has landed (caught or not).

[Regash]

That's incorrect - the receiving teams turn doesn't start until after the ball has landed (caught or not).

Well, that is a no-brainer then!
The bonus turn has ended but no new turn has started.
Pro can be used only once per turn, so

1. it's still the bonus turn and Pro has already been used
2. it's in between turns and Pro can't be used

[Darkson]

However, the rules say that Pro can be used to catch the kick-off (p.14 Team Re-Rolls and the Kick-off Table).

So it's more a question of whether using it in the Blitz turn stops it being used to catch the ball.

[frogboy]

That's incorrect - the receiving teams turn doesn't start until after the ball has landed (caught or not).

Well, that is a no-brainer then!
The bonus turn has ended but no new turn has started.
Pro can be used only once per turn, so

1. it's still the bonus turn and Pro has already been used
2. it's in between turns and Pro can't be used

I like this view, that Pro can only be used the once before the other turn starts.

I guess the other argument is also valid but it just doesn't feel right, how about if a player uses his Pro skill during a normal turn, then in the following opponents turn the ball scatters onto him, can he use it then?

[Regash]

Well, the thing is, if the Pro had Catch too, what then?
Could Catch be used? If i am not mistaken it says that catch can reroll any failed catch roll.
That taken into account, I'd say you could Pro the failed catch but since Pro has already been used, it shouldn't be useable again.

Now something else comes to mind...
Let's say, there's a pass but the catcher fails to catch it, rerolls with the catch skill, fails again (Damn you, double 1!) and it's a turnover.
A player from the opposing team fails to pick up the ball in his turn and it scatters back to the unsuccessful catcher, but again, he fails to catch the ball.
Can he use the catch skill again now? Or does he have to wait until his own turn starts to "refresh" the used skill?
How often can skills actually be used?

[frogboy]

Ok this is getting way to intense for me...

1,2,3 he uses Pro
4,5,6 he can't

[dode74]

The Blitz KO event is a bonus turn which happens before the ball lands (LRB6 page 18). That means Pro may be used.
Catching the ball after a kickoff occurs after resolving the kickoff table (page 18), but before the first turn starts (page 6). CRP specifies Pro (or catch) may be used to reroll this catch (page 18).

To me it seems using Pro twice is legit, particularly in light of the specification on page 18.

[Bakunin]

The Blitz KO event is a bonus turn which happens before the ball lands (LRB6 page 18). That means Pro may be used.
Catching the ball after a kickoff occurs after resolving the kickoff table (page 18), but before the first turn starts (page 6). CRP specifies Pro (or catch) may be used to reroll this catch (page 18).

To me it seems using Pro twice is legit, particularly in light of the specification on page 18.

+1 ...

The FAQ is your friend:
"Q: Can I use Pro during my opponent's turn? Can you re-roll Pro?
A: Yes you can. Yes but only in your turn."...

Also, you can use catch as many times as you want to.

[Regash]

I'm in on Catch being used as many times as a catch fails.

But with Pro, I'm not convinced somehow.
It seems to me to be quite unfair to have a 50 % free reroll twice, just because of a technicallity.
You are right, it is said in the rules and the FAQ that you can use Pro to reroll these rolls, but there is nothing that says "even if you used Pro already this turn".

[dode74]

but there is nothing that says "even if you used Pro already this turn".

That's because it's not this turn: it's between turns that the catch of the KO takes place.

[Regash]

But I could argue that, if you use Pro once per turn, you can't use it while there is no turn.
I know that technically you are right but my feeling for fairness just tells me it wasn't meant that way as it is a poblem that never occured before.

[dode74]

But I could argue that, if you use Pro once per turn, you can't use it while there is no turn.

You could if it didn't specifically say that Pro could be used to reroll the catch from a kickoff on Page 18.

I know that technically you are right but my feeling for fairness just tells me it wasn't meant that way as it is a poblem that never occured before.

Maybe, maybe not. The writing is fairly clear (to me, at least), though, and it could be intentional.

[babass]

the "blitz-turn", is a turn.
and the landing of the ball happen AFTER this turn.
so, you could use Pro for the catch, even if you have used Pro in the blitz-turn.