Chainpush and Fend

[plasmoid]

So, on a chainpush, Stand Firm and Side Step apply to a second (or later in the chain) player.
But how about Fend?

Would the second player (with fend) be pushed, but prevent the first from moving into his Square - in turn preventing the original blocker from following up?

Or is there some wording to prevent this that I'm not seeing?

Cheers
Martin

[Darkson]

Opposing players may not follow-up blocks made against this player

If the Fend player is a 2nd (or more) player in a chain-push then the opposingplayer didn't block them, meaning Fend can't be used.

[GalakStarscraper]

Normally never disagree with Darkson but I do on this one. A secondary push back according to the rules is treated as if the pushed player had blocked the secondary player (page 10) so pushing into a Fend player would prevent the first pushed player from being pushed and thus prevent the blocker from following up as well.

This was one of the wording changes made to what became the CRP ... I think we did this between LRB 5.0 and CRP as the question on what skills trigger and what ones do not was a frequent query.

[plasmoid]

Thanks

[Darkson]

Wow. Don't think I ever seen anyone play it like that.

[Regash]

Wow. Don't think I ever seen anyone play it like that.

Me neither but the rules on page 10 of the CRP are pretty clear.
Thanks Tom!

[Oventa]

while i think it is good, I don't think that it is that clear
I think I also would have judged it like darkson.
So this goes very high on my FAQ/clarifying rank list.

[Shteve0]

I'd have ruled fend works, the concept of the push being handled as if the block had been thrown against the chained player is fairly ingrained in me somehow! It may even have come up in a game, though I can't for the life of me think when it would have done...

Now, if the first player was blitzing, and both the blitzing player and the first victim had juggernaut, how would that play out?

[GalakStarscraper]

First victim is not blitzing and thus could not cancel Fend on 2nd

[GalakStarscraper]

while i think it is good, I don't think that it is that clear
I think I also would have judged it like darkson.
So this goes very high on my FAQ/clarifying rank list.

This is where I get into trouble because I know this is going to read like I'm an ass ... if we were in front of each other I promise you the tone would be one of inquiry and not smugness.

Your comment is that you do not think it is clear and that this would be very high on your FAQ.

Thus my reply to you is what I did when I wrote the CRP.

What on page 10 is not clear? Darkson made a ruling but now that I showed him the page 10 wording ... my guess is he would agree with the logic of how the rules are written and my answer.

So if you think something is not clear ... what is always more helpful is ... what would need changed to make it more clear?

[Darkson]

What on page 10 is not clear? Darkson made a ruling but now that I showed him the page 10 wording ... my guess is he would agree with the logic of how the rules are written and my answer.

I agree I was wrong, but I've never seen anyone play it like that since LRB5 came out, probably because the skill descriptions for Stand Firm and Side Step say when pushed (no mention of who) whereas Fend is when "opposing player blocks".

[birdman37]

What if the secondary pushed player has Fend, but was Stunned at the time of the push?

[Loki]

What if the secondary pushed player has Fend, but was Stunned at the time of the push?

Skills rules are clear that only Extraordinary skills can be used when a player is prone/stunned

[Darkson]

What if the secondary pushed player has Fend, but was Stunned at the time of the push?

Skills rules are clear that only Extraordinary skills can be used when a player is prone/stunned

Unless otherwise stated, else Jump Up would be useless.

[Oventa]

Hi Galak,

First of all, i think this is valid Question and no need to kind of apologize up front.
All is well, though I do understand that sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry in online communication

Meanwhile I am also not sure if my first reaction is still valid, as admittedly I guess most rules I learned were via play and then confirmed via rules reread. And not straight from reading the rules. so not sure anymore my first reaction is true and that I really would not have known this (fend crowd push is simply not a common thing).
Nevertheless below my points that triggered my initial (too fast?) reaction:

Page 10
This secondary push back is treated exactly like a normal push back as if the second player had been blocked by the first (prone and stunned players may be pushed this way as well.).
Page 65
Opposing players may not follow-up blocks made against this player even if the Fend player is Knocked Down.

- there are simply 55 pages in between, not sure it's easy to make the connection
- Treating a push back as if it it would have been a block is not the same as treating it like a block that automatically results in pushes. Hence there is a slight room for rules lawyering if this is counted really as a block which hence allows use of fend.

But again, I do think my initial reaction was too fast, perhaps I would have played I like that even before, not sure anymore.
Cheers