Illegal Substitution dirty tricks card

[Bakunin]

Can I use this card to put one of my opponents players, in my TD square?

[Fold]

As written, yes - though I'm quite sure that's not the intention!

[Stout Youngblood]

I would say "no" since the last line of the card description says, "This may take your team to 12 players for the remainder of the drive." If you grab an opponent's player it would bring their team to 12 players, not yours.

[Bakunin]

I would say "no" since the last line of the card description says, "This may take your team to 12 players for the remainder of the drive." If you grab an opponent's player it would bring their team to 12 players, not yours.

Not if you have cas'ed or fouled a opponent's player off the pitch

[Loki]

I think the line about it being a "reserves BOX" rather than reserves boxes suggests its only your dugout you should be choosing from, so a 'no' vote from me as well.

[Regash]

8♠ : ILLEGAL SUBSTITUTION
Description: A reserve sneaks onto the pitch while the ref is cleaning his glasses.
Timing: Play at the beginning of your turn before any player takes an Action.
Effect: You may place any player from the reserves box in an unoccupied square in the end zone you are defending. This player may only take a Move Action this turn. This may take your team to 12 players for the remainder of the drive.

After reading it, I'd say this was meant to use your own players only.
Sure, the wording isn't 100 % clear but how would you make the other coach do an illegal substitution?
Also, why would you want the opponent with more players? And put them in YOUR OWN endzone?!?

I also vote for NO.

[Darkson]

I'm in the no camp.

Also, why would you want the opponent with more players? And put them in YOUR OWN endzone?!?

Easy crowd push for one. If your opponent is stalling near your endzone having a player stood there might make it easier for you to get to the ball carrier for another.

[babass]

8♠ : ILLEGAL SUBSTITUTION
Description: A reserve sneaks onto the pitch while the ref is cleaning his glasses.
Timing: Play at the beginning of your turn before any player takes an Action.
Effect: You may place any player from the reserves box in an unoccupied square in the end zone you are defending. This player may only take a Move Action this turn. This may take your team to 12 players for the remainder of the drive.

i have never realized this card could be played beginning of any of own turn, and not beginning of the drive.
So, i have never realized we could put on this endzone, more than 1 player!

ie: my 16-men halfing are suffering a lot during the drive of some dwarves. the slayers crowd-pushed some, the apo saved another one... So, i have now 8 guys in the reserve, but only 4 left on the pitch! I played this cards turn 5, and i could put all 8 togethers in the endzone

idem with necro. I have only 11 players, i get a free zomby, and my 2 golems regen. i could play this card to put these 3 players on the pitch in the middle of the drive

[el Superbeasto]

8♠ : ILLEGAL SUBSTITUTION
Description: A reserve sneaks onto the pitch while the ref is cleaning his glasses.
Timing: Play at the beginning of your turn before any player takes an Action.
Effect: You may place any player from the reserves box in an unoccupied square in the end zone you are defending. This player may only take a Move Action this turn. This may take your team to 12 players for the remainder of the drive.

i have never realized this card could be played beginning of any of own turn, and not beginning of the drive.
So, i have never realized we could put on this endzone, more than 1 player!

ie: my 16-men halfing are suffering a lot during the drive of some dwarves. the slayers crowd-pushed some, the apo saved another one... So, i have now 8 guys in the reserve, but only 4 left on the pitch! I played this cards turn 5, and i could put all 8 togethers in the endzone

idem with necro. I have only 11 players, i get a free zomby, and my 2 golems regen. i could play this card to put these 3 players on the pitch in the middle of the drive

Any PLAYER (singular), not any players (plural).
I.e. you can only place one player on the pitch.

[babass]

damn

[Regash]

damn

I feel your loss!

[Fold]

Any PLAYER (singular), not any players (plural).
I.e. you can only place one player on the pitch.

By a strict rules as written interpretation you could put multiple players on the pitch though. "Any player" doesn't preclude it being multiple players.

For example, in Blood Bowl you have a roster of 16 players. Any player can be part of your starting lineup.

Do you interpret that to mean you can only start with 1 player in your lineup

Of course the subsequent line "this player may only take a move action" gives us a strong clue that the designer meant to write "you may place any one player from the reserves box on the pitch"

I would say "no" since the last line of the card description says, "This may take your team to 12 players for the remainder of the drive." If you grab an opponent's player it would bring their team to 12 players, not yours.

This doesn't prevent you picking an opponents player using this special play, it just lifts the 11 man restriction if you use the card on one of your players.

Again, I'm sure the card is intended to be played on your players but a strict reading doesn't back this up. BB rules were not written very tightly at all. It's why I spent a lot of time tightening the wording when I made my special play cards.

[GalakStarscraper]

By a strict rules as written interpretation you could put multiple players on the pitch though. "Any player" doesn't preclude it being multiple players.

Okay ... sorry the above just really bothered me to read.

Assume for one moment that you should not twist the rule wording like a pretzel.
Assume for one moment that if the rules allowed you to do something as awesome as putting your entire rest of your team onto the pitch that it would probably be worded to show that such an incredible thing could be done.

"You may place any player from the reserves box"

It says player ... if I meant for you to get more than one it would say any players. It does not ... it is singular.

If you were allowed to take an opposing player onto your team it would say "from either reserve box" .... from the reserves box thus clearly in my opinion only applies to your reserve box as the other reserve box is not one you have any access to without a rule to tell you that you can get into it.

So if you read the rule without trying to twist it ... single player from your reserve box.

Finally in the common sense part of the response ... if you could put on more than one player it would say "this may take your team to more than 11 players." NOT "this may take your team to 12 players"

BB rules were not written very tightly at all.

And I definitely disagree with this. Hundreds of hours were spent on this effort by multiple people ... its almost offensive to suggest that their efforts were that bad when there are very few real wording issues that are ever discussed on this forum. Most are solved by pointing out the wording. I would suggest Fold that you think the rules are not written tightly because you are working based on your post really hard to read more into them then the language that is present.

[el Superbeasto]

Any PLAYER (singular), not any players (plural).
I.e. you can only place one player on the pitch.

By a strict rules as written interpretation you could put multiple players on the pitch though. "Any player" doesn't preclude it being multiple players.

For example, in Blood Bowl you have a roster of 16 players. Any player can be part of your starting lineup.

Do you interpret that to mean you can only start with 1 player in your lineup

"Any player can be part of your starting lineup."
Yes, I interpret that as singular as well. Since your starting lineup is 11 players (if possible), any (single) player can be part of that lineup.
This seems like a silly rules discussion.

EDIT: Oh, Tom beat me to it while I was writing.

[Fold]

I think you have mistaken my intent here. I'm not arguing this to be an flower of an undescript sort or because I would ever try and pull this off during a game, but to point out the potential for improvement.

A long time may have been spent getting it right but clearly there is room for improvement - this threads very existence proves that confusion can happen for either half of this cards rules.

I didn't have to go far in the rule book to find another example. In fact right next to Dirty Tricks, just on the previous special play card, the rules for Gromskulls Exploding Runes starts:

Choose one player on your team

Don't you think that the fact one card states ONE player from YOUR team leaves quite a lot of room to question whether the very next card, Dirty Tricks, can in fact be used to affect multiple players from either team?

If not, why doesn't it say one player from your team? Those limitations appear on quite a lot of the special cards, so it's not isolated to just the Runes.

In reality I expect you don't see many queries because the community is pretty casual and sensible enough to understand the intent, and many issues that would commonly occur are already subject to detailed FAQ's.