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 Post subject: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:06 am 
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(I'm splitting this out from the Grak and Crumbleberry thread, because it was way off-topic there, and I think it merits more discussion. Also, I'm not fully convinced that I was wrong :P)

Weeping Dagger wrote:
This player keeps a warpstone-tainted dagger hidden in their kit, and is an expert at keeping it out of the referee's sight! If this player inflicts a casualty during a block, and the result of the Casualty roll is 11-38 (Badly Hurt) after any re-rolls, roll a D6. On a result of 4 or more, the opposing player must miss their next game. If you are not playing a league, a Weeping Dagger has no effect on the game.


Apothecary wrote:
... Otherwise, immediately after the player suffers the Casualty, you can use the Apothecary to make your opponent roll again on the Casualty table and then you choose which of the two results to apply. If the player is only Badly Hurt after
this roll (even if it was the original Casualty roll), the Apothecary has managed to patch him up and pump him full of painkillers so that the player may be moved into the Reserves box.


So, the way I interpret the interaction of these rules is that Weeping Dagger kicks in after your opponent has choosen (or declined) to use their Apothecary, and if successful, cancels the "back into Reserves" benefit of the Apoth, and replaces it with an MNG result. If my interpretation is correct, it actually means that Weeping Dagger can potentially affect the current game, and keep a player in the Dead and Injured box (and out of Reserves) even if they've been successfully Apoth'd to BH.

I'm basing this interpretation on the phrase "after any re-rolls" in the text for Weeping Dagger. Apothecaries are the #1 source of re-rolls on the Casualty table, so if it wasn't referring to them, then what else could it be referring to?

However, I'll also admit that my case might not be water tight. The Weeping Blades skill doesn't explicitly refer to the MNG result on the Casualty table, it just says "must miss their next game", and as such, makes no mention of whether or not they must stay in the D&I box for the current game. But I'm guessing that's just loose wording?

Surely we can agree that one of them must trump the other, though? It would be a bit strange (even for Blood Bowl) for a player to get healed up and placed into Reserves for the rest of this game, but then forced to miss the next one?

Curious to hear people's thoughts, anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:20 am 
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Well, the Weeping Dagger text says nothing about putting the victim in any box of the dugout.
Why not interpret it as a long term effect that get the player sick after the game?

So yes, the player gets to play this game to the end (or the next CAS inflicted on him), he is pumped full of painkillers after all.
But then, the Warpstone kicks in and the player needs a long term treatment to ward off any mutations from the wretched substance.

I think the statement, that in a non league game the Weeping Dagger has no effect, serves my meaning as there, the apothecary will still be patching the player up for returning to the pitch.

Does that sound any good?


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:26 am 
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Huh. So Apoths and Weeping Dagger don't intersect at all? That might actually be the best way to interpret it. Also, as you mention, that would indeed support the text saying "If you are not playing a league, a Weeping Dagger has no effect on the game."

In that case, I fully agree that Weeping Dagger is an absolute bastard of a skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:23 am 
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I think we're still waiting on Andy etc to clarify what they exactly meant with the intersection between the Apo and Weeping Blades - it was certainly a question that was asked repeatedly on the FB group, and I don't recall them ever giving a definitive answer other than "in will be in the errata".

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:42 am 
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@Darkson:

Has there been any errata other than the first that was published alongside the game?

If not, haven't they promised another errata long ago?
If yes, don't you think by now the new rules being a complete and utter F*ck-up, needing so many erratas?

A game older than most people playing it but still GW manages to screw it up... :roll: :orc:
And actually I shudder when I think of how many rules additions called "Death Zone" will follow...


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:49 am 
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Regash wrote:
Has there been any errata other than the first that was published alongside the game?

Nope.

Quote:
If not, haven't they promised another errata long ago?

Well, I wouldn't say long ago, seeing as the games has only been re-released a couple of months, but yes, they'd said they'd update the errata and haven't (7k Elf linemen anyone?).

Quote:
If yes, don't you think by now the new rules being a complete and utter F*ck-up, needing so many erratas?

Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Maybe they should have given away the game for free and charge us for the errata! :orc: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:19 am 
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New errata and FAQ today!
The FAQ includes Magic Sponge specifying that it is possible for a player to play the current game and still miss the next game.
I would interpret the rules in that light. Weeping Dagger has no effect on the current game. Apo with BH + WD means player in reserves, but misses the next game.

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:44 pm 
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CyberedElf wrote:
New errata and FAQ today!
The FAQ includes Magic Sponge specifying that it is possible for a player to play the current game and still miss the next game.
I would interpret the rules in that light. Weeping Dagger has no effect on the current game. Apo with BH + WD means player in reserves, but misses the next game.


If thats true it becomes even more silly

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 Post subject: Re: Weeping Dagger and Apothecaries
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:54 pm 
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I agree with Cyberedelf given the Magic Sponge FAQ, if a player is injured by a GR and is Apo'd back to the Reserves he could still be MNG because of Weeping Blades 4+.

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