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 Post subject: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:41 am 
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If you look at the wording of Raise the Dead in BB2 ...

Teams of Legend wrote:
... However, their Head Coach is replaced by a Necromancer. Once per match, the Necromancer can Raise the Dead.
<...text on how that works, same as in CRP...>
If you have a suitable miniature representing your Necromancer, you can argue the refereeā€™s call in the same way that you would with a Head Coach.


This implies to me that a necromancer who has been ejected for arguing the call can NOT Raise the Dead - it needs to be done immediately, and the Necromancer isn't in the stadium any more.
Is there an official ruling on this anywhere, or is it just one of things "which makes sense"?

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:18 am 
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The head coach is ejected from the match, he can still be lurking in the dressing rooms and go about stealing a body in order to raise it again :)

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:20 am 
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rolo wrote:
and the Necromancer isn't in the stadium any more.

Does it say that in the rules now? It used to be to a dungeon under the stadium.

Under the old AtC rules (so early LRBs) a Necromancer sent off for arguing could still raise the dead - I don't see any reason why that can't still be the case (there's nothing in the raise the dead rules that says the Necromancer needs to be able to see, or anywhere near, the dead player).

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:42 am 
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Darkson wrote:
Does it say that in the rules now? It used to be to a dungeon under the stadium.


Argue the Call just says that the coach is "Sent Off". Whatever that means.

It doesn't matter so much to me whether a Sent Off Necromancer can raise the dead or not. I'd just prefer some kind of ruling now if one exists, rather than after some Mummy kills an opponent and wants a free zombie.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:43 am 
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Yeah i would agree with Lunchmoney and Darkson, necromancers have strange magics that can't be bound by a simple dungeon cell. I met one once in the lane outside a kebab shop. He was trying to raise a male chicken that had been slaughtered for a chefs special. I told him he'd need more than magic to get that old cockerel to stand up, perhaps a group of cheerleaders could give him a hand, unfortunately he was arrested just after for indecent behavior.

I mean as a Coach of several failing teams, I've lost my fair share of players, Necromancers often scavenge bodies out the trash at the back of the stadium to fill their teams, its not always mid game.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:49 am 
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rolo wrote:
I'd just prefer some kind of ruling now if one exists,

Well, if the rules don't say "the Necromancer has to be still in the Dug-Out [i.e.not sent off] to use Raise the Dead" (or similar) I'd assume it doesn't matter, until GW make an official ruling one way or the other and/or the commissioner/TO says otherwise.
I'd certainly allow it. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:58 am 
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frogboy wrote:
Necromancers often scavenge bodies out the trash at the back of the stadium to fill their teams, its not always mid game.


As amusing as it is to think about dumpster diving outside a stadium for body parts, Raise the Dead is always mid-game, immediately after an opposing player dies.

And right now we're talking about rules, not fluff. The rules are clear up to a point:
- Undead and Necro teams get a Necromancer as their head coach;
- Once per game, immediately after an opposing player dies, the Necromancer can Raise the Dead;
- The Necromancer can Argue the Call as a Coach (and therefore can possibly get "Sent Off")

What is unclear:
- Can a Necromancer, who has been "Sent Off", still Raise the Dead?

Since the text of Argue the Call simply says that when Sent Off, the Coach can't argue the call anymore, and doesn't contribute to Brilliant Coaching. So by default, you'd imagine that he could still Raise the Dead. But that rule was written before Teams of Legend came out. I guess we're having a kind of pedantic argument about what "Sent Off" means. In Baseball, for example, an ejected manager has to physically leave the stadium (and sometimes tries to sneak back in using a ridiculous cartoon disguise). In soccer, a manager can get a red card and they just have to leave the sideline and not talk to the team for the rest of the game, but I don't think they have to leave the stadium. What happens in Blood Bowl?

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:12 am 
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From the CRP: "and the player taking the Foul Action is sent off to the dungeon that lies under every Blood Bowl pitch".

Managers in football might get sent to the stands, but they still communicate with the team during the game (walkie talkies, mobile phones, runners(!)) and can still give team talks if sent off during the first half (or before extra time).

And again, unless there is something in the text that specifically stops it then you have to assume it can be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:14 am 
Legend
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rolo wrote:
frogboy wrote:
Necromancers often scavenge bodies out the trash at the back of the stadium to fill their teams, its not always mid game.


As amusing as it is to think about dumpster diving outside a stadium for body parts, Raise the Dead is always mid-game, immediately after an opposing player dies.

And right now we're talking about rules, not fluff. The rules are clear up to a point:
- Undead and Necro teams get a Necromancer as their head coach;
- Once per game, immediately after an opposing player dies, the Necromancer can Raise the Dead;
- The Necromancer can Argue the Call as a Coach (and therefore can possibly get "Sent Off")

What is unclear:
- Can a Necromancer, who has been "Sent Off", still Raise the Dead?

Since the text of Argue the Call simply says that when Sent Off, the Coach can't argue the call anymore, and doesn't contribute to Brilliant Coaching. So by default, you'd imagine that he could still Raise the Dead. But that rule was written before Teams of Legend came out. I guess we're having a kind of pedantic argument about what "Sent Off" means. In Baseball, for example, an ejected manager has to physically leave the stadium (and sometimes tries to sneak back in using a ridiculous cartoon disguise). In soccer, a manager can get a red card and they just have to leave the sideline and not talk to the team for the rest of the game, but I don't think they have to leave the stadium. What happens in Blood Bowl?


I've heard of these other games, baseball and foosball. Silly fantasy games nothing to do with real life.

Your arguing about something which isn't written down in the rules, there is no rule which disallows a necromancer from raising the dead as described in your post, so your asking what happens in every game ever? I guess we are free to make it up, write a story or roll a dice. I mean playing games with just rules would be a bit boring.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:57 am 
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Darkson wrote:
And again, unless there is something in the text that specifically stops it then you have to assume it can be done.


frogboy wrote:
Your arguing about something which isn't written down in the rules, there is no rule which disallows a necromancer from raising the dead as described in your post, so your asking what happens in every game ever? I guess we are free to make it up, write a story or roll a dice. I mean playing games with just rules would be a bit boring.


Yep, I agree that by the letter of the rule, it doesn't specifically say that a Necromancer who has been Sent Off can't Raise the Dead. So unless there's some official errata or clarification, that's how it ought to be.

This whole thing started when I read the text, wondered if there was any kind of official ruling, and figured I'd ask TFF. It still kind of makes sense to me that "Sent Off" means "Out of the game, can't affect the game any more".

Quote:
Managers in football might get sent to the stands, but they still communicate with the team during the game (walkie talkies, mobile phones, runners(!)) and can still give team talks if sent off during the first half (or before extra time).


Is this allowed, or does it just happen? In the NFL, there are strict rules about who is allowed on the sideline, and there's no outside communication permitted. As Cleveland found out the hard way.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:39 pm 
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rolo wrote:
This whole thing started when I read the text, wondered if there was any kind of official ruling,

Well, I guess the official ruling is "read the rules as written, and don't try to add sub-texts that aren't there".

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Hey Rolo if it makes it easier to swallow, not the chicken kebab, a necromancer uses that dark magic to keep his players playing the whole time he has been sent off. If the magic didnt work, then they would all surley collapse or crumbbl to dust.

:orc:

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:06 pm 
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frogboy wrote:
Hey Rolo if it makes it easier to swallow, not the chicken kebab, a necromancer uses that dark magic to keep his players playing the whole time he has been sent off. If the magic didnt work, then they would all surley collapse or crumbbl to dust.

:orc:


Hah! Yeah, it does. Just one of those things which doesn't really make sense, but which you have to just accept. Like Vampires playing in Very Sunny weather. Or Undead with no sense of smell being distracted by a halfling chef making chili.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Hey them halfling chefs are the real McCoy, i've seen corpses litrally dig them selves out of their graves for a McMurtys if they died with an empty belly, infact i'm sure no graveyards are allowed to excist within a mile of a McMurtys now.

Gardens of Moor everywhere have been kicking up a stink haha :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer arguing the call
 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:40 pm 
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McMurty's Big Moot Soylent is PLAYERS!!!!

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