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 Post subject: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:06 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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Does Loner apply if attempting to reroll the "squirm free" bit of the Always Hungry roll? As it is in the AH skill I would assume yes, but it is the goblin trying to get free and he does not have loner.

A link to an official clarification would be good - couldn't find one myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:33 am 
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I've had this thought as well. It's weird because the skill belongs to the troll, but it's the goblin trying to escape. My natural instinct is to say that loner doesn't apply, but I'm probably wrong. BB2 says that loner applies.

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:37 am 
The Glow-Father
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Always hungry is 1 roll, followed by a second roll if the first one is a 1...... ( lots of ones & 1s so stay with me) the first roll is the troll so loner would apply

the second roll is the wriggle free roll so would be the goblin, so unless he has "loner" ( star pogoer for example) then id say that there is no loner roll......

.... this is the way ive played it for the last 150+ goblin games, pretty sure i saw it written somewhere, however not sure where....

hope this helps

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:03 am 
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First thought: It doesn't matter who has the skill causing the roll. I. e. if you try to get out of my Tentacles, you do not have to worry about my loner. Team re-roll says a roll "made by a player." If Always Hungry makes the goblin make a die roll, then the trolls Loner doesn't matter.

Second thought: (to myself) RTFM
Quote:
On a roll of 1 he attempts to eat the unfortunate team-mate! Roll the D6 again, a second 1 means that he successfully scoffs the team-mate down . . . If the second roll is 2-6 the team-mate squirms free

Which player is taking the action?
"he attempts to eat"
"he successfully scoffs"
If "he" fails, the squirms free is the result. The goblin only gets the active role of "squirm" after the troll fails the second roll.
The troll is making the roll. IMO, Loner would apply.

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:18 am 
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Certainly the intention originally would be the little guy rolls as this used to be covered (in a sense) with right stuff. So I would play it that you can reroll it, a bit unfair if you can't.


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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:35 am 
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No Loner roll is required for wriggle free. Sometimes you risk the life of the goblin by rerolling the Hungry (with Loner) because you need that TD for the win.

fumbbl correctly (imo) treats wriggle free as no loner. nomnomnomnom.


Also, Bomber Dribblesnot has right stuff! I learnt this the hard way in a game against Pact. It was a Troll that threw him too (after dodging)... in that case the wriggle free would need a loner reroll.


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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Reading the rules from LRB6 I'm not at all sure that it is clearly the Goblin doing the rolling. It says that the goblin squirms free but this could be as result of the troll loosening his grip. Given that it is the Troll's skill in play during the Troll's action and that the first roll is taken by the Troll I would expect something less ambiguous in the wording before allowing a loner-less reroll.

The wording also says that a second 1 "means that he successfully scoffs the team-mate down" which suggests that the Troll has some agency in the roll and is not passively awaiting an opposing "squirm" check.


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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:06 pm 
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I guess this also applies to "which of my players needs Pro to reroll this situation" :lol:
I don't think I've ever had a reroll left by the time I've had a goblin eaten so I'd never considered this one before...

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Given the wording posted by cyberelf and Hutchings fairy I'd have to agree that it's the troll rolling to hold on, not the goblin rolling to get free, so Loner would apply.

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:19 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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ramchop wrote:
fumbbl correctly (imo) treats wriggle free as no loner. nomnomnomnom.


Thanks - usually a good indicator. Will put that on the clarifications document, and league commissioners can rule the other way if they like!

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:29 am 
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In addition to my above argument I thought of another reason. Which player is taking the action? The troll. While there are exceptions to this generality, every one that I can think of (pass block & dump-off) are specifically understood to be out of sequence events.

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:12 am 
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CyberedElf wrote:
In addition to my above argument I thought of another reason. Which player is taking the action? The troll. While there are exceptions to this generality, every one that I can think of (pass block & dump-off) are specifically understood to be out of sequence events.


E̶q̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶k̶i̶l̶l̶?̶ ̶A̶l̶w̶a̶y̶s̶ ̶H̶u̶n̶g̶r̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶"̶f̶e̶a̶t̶u̶r̶e̶"̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶T̶r̶o̶l̶l̶.̶ ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶w̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶T̶h̶r̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶P̶r̶o̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶a̶i̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶B̶l̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶L̶u̶s̶t̶.̶

EDIT: Retracted as demostrably wrong!


Last edited by hutchinsfairy on Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:19 am 
Legend
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I'm on the side of the Troll making the roll. The roll is in relation to the Troll's skill, it's the Troll making the roll, and the Troll has Loner. Loner applies.

Be good to see a comment from Galak et al.

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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:24 am 
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I'm with CyberedElf et al on this one. Be good to see something from someone ex-BBRC though, as lunchmoney says.


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 Post subject: Re: Always hungry and Loner
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:58 am 
Emerging Star
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It's so not the same as a thrall rerolling blood lust. The thrall is completely passive where as the right stuff player wriggles free. This is an active action by the little guy and therefore should be his roll. When it's ambiguous I think you should look at the intention rather than wording of the rules. Looking for loopholes and missed meaning in rules definitions is nonsense geekism.

The rule originates from 2nd edition. Where it states that little guys without right stuff roll a d6 if a player with ttm attempts to throw them. On a roll of 1-4 the creature has very sensibly decided he doesn't want to be thrown and dodged out of the way. This is the same action. He very sensibly has decided he doesn't want to be eaten and dodged out the way. The little guy has performed the action and therefore should make the roll. Ambiguous wording or not, that's the intention.


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