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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:15 am 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:07 am
Posts: 76
Dirty Player can be very valuable against teams with one or two "super stars". If you get a short on these players you need to do everything you can to get them off the pitch. Examples: Witch Elves, War Dancers.
Dirty Player has another less explicit benefit - opponents with high value or favourite players may over-protect these players if they know you have DP.


Trolls - I like trolls at lower TV but at high TV less useful. Only reason I would get one is to have a goblin for any last minute, desperation Throw Team Mate plays. Fun but not worth the Team Value.


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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:59 pm 
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:27 am
Posts: 160
mattgslater wrote:
nyahoi wrote:
I still cant stop seeing a Troll as mainly an unnecessary 5th black orc that needs babysat!

After 200+ games with Orcs on FUMBBL, about half with a Troll and half without, this is my opinion of Trolls. I don't use a Troll in the ultra-high-TV NBFL, even. (I did for a season, even drafted him with Block and Guard, regretted it. He cost me games and I just missed the playoffs.)

The worst part is that babysitting a Troll isn't enough. Even if all your RS rolls are 2+, they tend to fail at the worst times. Even if you move him first and block with him last and do everything else right.


Hey mattgslater,

i really like your way to play the orcs and i'am curious if you have an updated version of your playstyle guide. I know you have written some awesome threads here but i really want to know what are you thinking right now about orcs. As soon as i am finished with my Simyin project i'll definitly give orcs a long league run...

cheers,

pauli

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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:45 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:07 pm
Posts: 28
gregory_n_white wrote:
Dirty Player can be very valuable against teams with one or two "super stars". If you get a short on these players you need to do everything you can to get them off the pitch. Examples: Witch Elves, War Dancers.
Dirty Player has another less explicit benefit - opponents with high value or favourite players may over-protect these players if they know you have DP.


Trolls - I like trolls at lower TV but at high TV less useful. Only reason I would get one is to have a goblin for any last minute, desperation Throw Team Mate plays. Fun but not worth the Team Value.


I can definitely understand the want to foul high target threats. My concern there though is does the skill itself get used consistently enough to do so to justify its presence.

Thinking about it though, I think this might actually be the best skill for me for this league that I'm in :D. The majority of my remaining pairings are against teams that have already been through a previous season. A LOT of players on these teams will be incredibly foul worthy compared to my own!


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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:53 am 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:43 pm
Posts: 68
nyahoi wrote:
gregory_n_white wrote:
Dirty Player can be very valuable against teams with one or two "super stars". If you get a short on these players you need to do everything you can to get them off the pitch. Examples: Witch Elves, War Dancers.
Dirty Player has another less explicit benefit - opponents with high value or favourite players may over-protect these players if they know you have DP.


Trolls - I like trolls at lower TV but at high TV less useful. Only reason I would get one is to have a goblin for any last minute, desperation Throw Team Mate plays. Fun but not worth the Team Value.


I can definitely understand the want to foul high target threats. My concern there though is does the skill itself get used consistently enough to do so to justify its presence.

Thinking about it though, I think this might actually be the best skill for me for this league that I'm in :D. The majority of my remaining pairings are against teams that have already been through a previous season. A LOT of players on these teams will be incredibly foul worthy compared to my own!


One of the best use of DP is to show what happens when the opponent are NOT trying to score and instead stall for time. The offensive team will often use at least five players to protect the ball and not really even try to score. This is where gang fouling them until they understand that moving the ball is the point of the game. You will have almost your entire team against half their team, use it to foul them until they are forced to try and score and expose themselves.

Pretty much every team needs at least one DP player, weaker teams need at least two. Orcs usually do fine with one DP player.

If you play in a league where you don't see excessive use of stalling tactics you might consider not using a DP player since Orcs tend to do damage fairly well anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:38 am 
King of Comedy
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:18 pm
Posts: 7719
Location: Far to the west, across the great desert, in the fabled Land of Comedy
Orcs love Dirty Player. Two-pronged attack, blocking and fouling, for your removal.

CyberedElf wrote:
I have not seen fouling to be a useful strategy unless you have a bribe.
You should take a Bribe any chance you get. It makes fouling great, right from the get-go. Otherwise, you need to get a numerical advantage before you can foul.

@Pauli42, will do. I'll write up some stuff including my experience in the NBFL.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.


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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:24 am 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:34 pm
Posts: 43
Location: BW, Germany
So, I'll just add to this thread with my n00bish orc question: I have a Dodge-Blitzer, where do I develop him, considering I have a Thrower in my team? Do I go ball carrier anyways? Or is there a neat ball-stealing build?


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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:30 pm 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 pm
Posts: 413
Just develop him normally. However he'd certainly take any stat increase. The thing with BB now is how high do you want your TV to go? As Orcs are mainly AV9 they'll pretty much keep going until they run out of money.

As for ball stealing builds, just the normal. Strip ball/tackle. Orcs generally go for man marking, attrition or freezing their opponents in place and then take advantage of the gaps.


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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:02 pm 
King of Comedy
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:18 pm
Posts: 7719
Location: Far to the west, across the great desert, in the fabled Land of Comedy
Carry with him. Get him Sure Hands. Thrower becomes your reserve, your backup carrier in case the main one goes out. 6 3 3 9 Blodge SH is way better than 5 3 3 8 Block SH. All your other Blitzers can go MB/Tackle/Guard.

My NBFL team has a Blitzer with +AG, Dodge, Guard, Sure Hands, and Tackle. He has averaged about a TD a game. But the secret is the BOBs and the other Blitzers. We do okay in a very competitive league; we didn't win our division this season, but we've made the playoffs on the wildcard (we have one game left to play in the reg season).

What I've got now:
BOB (B/G/MB/T/SF)
BOB (B/G/MB/D/SF, n)
BOB (rookie, just lost a B/G/MB/SF BOB)
BOB (B/G/MB)
Blitzer (MB, T, PO*, Pro, Jug, JU)
Blitzer (MB, T, PO*, G, +MA)
Blitzer (MB, T, G, SF, Frenzy)
Blitzer (+AG, D, T, SH, G)
Lino (DP, B, Fend)
Lino (DP, B)
Lino (DP)
Lino (Block/Frenzy)
Thrower (Block/Accurate)
5 RR, FF 10, TV 2350k

* 2016 rules, we switched over a few games ago. I run 5 RR so I can pile on almost at will.

_________________
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.


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 Post subject: Re: Orc advice for a newb!
 Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:23 pm 
Star Player
Star Player

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:57 pm
Posts: 747
Jorgen_CAB wrote:
One of the best use of DP is to show what happens when the opponent are NOT trying to score and instead stall for time.


It almost never makes sense to score, when you don't have to, even if your opponent is fouling you. That doesn't mean it isn't a good strategy if you are the team being stalled against, but for the most part if my opponent is focused on hurting my players, and the ones I allow him to target, with one blitz and one foul instead of attacking the ball it is good for me.

Consider what the alternative is....taking three hits, a blitz, and a foul along with giving up the opportunity to score potentially for the other side - 4 times as many hits....

When my defense has failed to the point that my opponent can stall safely in my end of the field I generally make an analysis....can I build to the point where I can threaten the ball? If not then attack the highest priority targets and foul when appropriate as you suggest. Otherwise threaten the ball even if it takes a couple of turns to get in position.

I tend to find DPs much more useful when the drive is in doubt. From an orc perspective, DPs allow you to threaten the MB, Claw, PO Beastman, the Leaping, Strip Ball War dancer, or the big hands gutter runner as appropriate...

CyberedElf wrote:
I have not seen fouling to be a useful strategy unless you have a bribe.


Fouling doesn't work well if you use it without considering the implications ahead of time.

Basically you have an 11/36 chance of losing your fouler (this presumes you break armor, but that is what you want to do!) - is the value of the foul higher or lower then that? Presume, for example, that you get enough assists to automatically break armor - say a rookie human lineman with 7 assists fouling another rookie human lineman. Your foul odds then are:

6/36 Casualty
9/36 KO
21/36 Stun

This foul then is roughly a push. You are slightly more likely to get your opponent off the pitch then you are to be thrown out...but KOs can come back. What if you instead had dirty player on your fouler?

10/36 Casualty
11/36 KO
15/36 Stun

As you can see the odds are dramatically better. But you are rarely going to have enough assists to automatically break armor, and you only have so many dirty players. This is where the value of the players involved becomes much more important. Fouling a rookie lineman with a rookie lineman doesn't usually make sense. But fouling a lvl7 war dancer with a rookie lineman almost always does.


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