(Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Necros vs the world of Blood Bowl

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Pedda »

swilhelm73 wrote:IMO, starting with only 2 RRs and not many skills you will find yourself with many early turnovers.

I'd prefer to start Necro with 3, especially as RRs are expensive.
That was my thinking as well, but I found that my players started filling the KO and injury boxes, because of the lack of skills.
I'd rather have the FGs, which are quite relaiable, than the ghouls with an extra RR.
However, I guess it depends on your opponent (I'm only playing against bashy teams)

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by swilhelm73 »

You can make other sacrifices to get to 3 RRs

Something like

3 RR: 210
2 Wights: 180
2 FG: 220
1 WW: 120
6Z: 240
970

or

3 RR: 210
2 Wights: 180
2 FG: 220
1 WW: 120
1 G: 70
5Z: 200
1000

I would suggest taking the FGs to start in any build since they are among the hardest players to skill in the game. Starting with multiple WWs is more optional, IMO, since you will want to protect them, they level easily, and they are a major risk with frenzy, ST3 and no block out of the gate.

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Pedda »

swilhelm73 wrote:You can make other sacrifices to get to 3 RRs

Something like

3 RR: 210
2 Wights: 180
2 FG: 220
1 WW: 120
6Z: 240
970

or

3 RR: 210
2 Wights: 180
2 FG: 220
1 WW: 120
1 G: 70
5Z: 200
1000

I would suggest taking the FGs to start in any build since they are among the hardest players to skill in the game. Starting with multiple WWs is more optional, IMO, since you will want to protect them, they level easily, and they are a major risk with frenzy, ST3 and no block out of the gate.
You're right and in your example, I'd go for alternative 2. That way the team doesn't lose to much speed.

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

2 Rerolls is a huge gamble and one that a Necro coach must decide upon.... You will either be blessed from the grave and quickly buy your way to a third with a glorious start or, most likely, struggle through three or four games of misery till you hit your stride.... Short league is a huge gamble (6 games or less) and 12 games a success barring injuries and death (the permanent kind!)

If I were to (re)start a Necro team today, I would go with the 3 reroll, 1 Werewolf, 1 Ghoul, and full Wight/FGs.... I think this would mitigate the Werewolf baiting (my friends are damned good at this) and ghoul hunting that sometimes hurts me in the early games....
As well as having the rerolls for pick ups.... Maybe the ghoul AND werewolf could play enough fetch and catch with the opposing ball carriers to make a few turnover tds....

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

Mildly on topic: I've achieved enough success with my Vampire team (Necropolis Nightwings) that I'd like a little advice on moving them along.... They started in an Iron Man League so had no rerolls to begin with... now the team is...

01 Thrall 02spp
02 Thrall 08spp wrestle
03 Thrall 02spp
04 Thrall 10spp wrestle
05 Thrall 06spp block
06 Thrall 07spp block
07 Thrall 05spp -MA
08 Thrall 00spp
09 Thrall 11spp wrestle
10 Thrall 02spp
11 Thrall 05spp Niggling
13 Vamp 16spp Pro (+ reg skill)
14 Vamp 23spp Pro, Leap
15 Vamp 11spp (doubles skill)
16 Vamp 20spp Pro, Leap

02 Rerolls
08 Fan Factor
Apothecary

I'm seriously considering firing Thrall 7, 8, & 11 as superfluous at this point and to reduce TV....

So what skills for the two vamps? I am leaning heavily toward Leader on the doubles, but have no clue for the second skilled mosquito....

What say the gallery?

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

As an aside, I have acquired a couple of "Devils" to use as wights:

Citadel Night Horrors Devil Attacking

&

Hell Dorado Infernal Ambassador

I think they will look good together.... :orc:

and I am currently painting my copy of the B7 Ghoul!

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

This is the "shortbow" defense that is working so well for me... with zombies and flesh golems in the forward ranks, and werewolves and wights in the back.... The wolves are sufficiently screened and able to counter-attack well....

Code: Select all

1*****Z*Z*Z*****
2***************
3*F**Z*****Z**F*
4***w**t*t**w***
5***************
So, that's a first line of zombies in positions 1-6, 1-8 and 1-10; Flesh Golems in 3-2 & 3-14 with zeds in 3-5 & 3-11; Wolves in 4-4 & 4-12 with Wights in 4-7 & 4-9

Compare to the Longbow

Code: Select all

1*****Z*Z*Z*****
2***************
3**Z*F*****F*Z**
4*w****t*t****w*
5***************
that's a first line of zombies in positions 1-6, 1-8 and 1-10; Flesh Golems in 3-5 & 3-11 with zeds in 3-2 & 3-14 ; Wolves in 4-2 & 4-14 with Wights in 4-7 & 4-9

the Ziggurat/Chevron

Code: Select all

1******ZZZ******
2***************
3**F**Z***Z**F**
4*w**t*****t**w*
5***************
that's a first line of zombies in positions 1-7, 1-8 and 1-9; Flesh Golems in 3-3 & 3-12 with zeds in 3-6 & 3-10; Wolves in 4-2 & 4-14 with Wights in 4-5 & 4-11

and the Inverted Ziggurat/Chevron

Code: Select all

1******ZZZ******
2***************
3*F**Z*****Z**F*
4**w**t***t**w**
5***************
that's a first line of zombies in positions 1-7, 1-8 and 1-9; Flesh Golems in 3-2 & 3-14 with zeds in 3-5 & 3-11; Wolves in 4-3 & 4-13 with Wights in 4-6 & 4-10

My problem with the ziggie/chevron schemes is that "ticket down broadway" that a collapse of the front line (w/wo blitz or using leap) gives the opposing offense....

How would one attack the defenses above and would you use alternate positioning of players?

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

Digger Goreman wrote:I'm seriously considering firing Thrall 7, 8, & 11 as superfluous at this point and to reduce TV....
Done! Let's hope I don't need them....
Digger Goreman wrote:So what skills for the two vamps? I am leaning heavily toward Leader on the doubles, but have no clue for the second skilled mosquito....
Decided to go with Leader on the doubles to get out of my first spot of trouble and took Strong Arm for the starts of a passing game :) This might allow me to put the two Leapers forward for quicker scoring, or with the ability to rush a dropped ball and throw it back to my other vamps (helped me win my last game).... My Strong Arm Vamp will likely get KOR next and the Leader will be the wild card... with thralls covering journeyman skills....

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

swilhelm73 wrote:Looking at the necro team I have some disagreements, the most notable one in the Zombie skill selection area:

Most Zombies should get Block first, with one Zombie getting Kick asap.


One you get a full roster you'll have 8 positionals and 3 zombies for defense.

That means all the Zs go on the line and can't use kick.
For me a "full roster" is 13 players.... Eight positionals and 5 zeds, one of whom should have kick and play on defense.... The extra zombies provide depth and a fouling option....

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by swilhelm73 »

I meant that when you like up you'll have your eight positionals on the field plus 3 z's.

How then do you use one with kick unless you bench a positional?

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Maverick »

Personally I only tend to use one ghoul on defense - tend to skill one up as an attacking runner (block, sidestep +ag is a god send) and one up as a deep safety, (wrestle, tackle, etc) then switch out the offensive runner for the kick zombie, against teams like dwarves where my team has a decided movement advantage, against the elves, its not so important to have kick so he becomes a Los zombie if I need a spare.

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

Experience has led me to Maverick's conclusion: With eight positionals on the field, especially in the early games when the Wolves have no block, four of your positionals (and, in all fairness, Flesh Golems are not positionals for ball carrying) out of six are vulnerable, i.e., the wolves are prone to tagging for the 1/3 skull/double-down/dodge conundrum, and the ghouls are hunted for their 7 Av.... This leaves the Wights as the only reliable ball carriers....
It seems counter-intuitive, but the best initial build is to limit your positionals to six (also maximizing rerolls) and not play with more than seven throughout the season unless you place the Golems on the line with one zombie....

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

Unusual game against an Ogre team with a few ogre skills and an Ag4 snotling vs my 5 zed, 1 ghoul, wights, golems and wolves (with the only skill being block on a wolf)....

Perhaps his super snot fascinated him too much as he never got him off the ground after repeated attempts.... The only three snots that made flight school hurt themselves on landing, or a failed gfi.... Despite failing his first dodge attempt, my new ghoul Skeedaddle managed one Td in each half and acquired +Ma! Wight Meister pulled in a casualty along with wolf Growler.... The MVP fell appropriately on werewolf Howler who had a casualty, Td, and two completions on the day!!! Going from 5 to 17 spp, he gained Block and the covetted Ag increase....

Of course all this cost me two zeds, one DEAD and one retired with a fractured skull....

I elected to buy back the two zeds rather than go with 3 zombies and a second ghoul.... The team is now:

Z Zed2 0spp
Z Fred2 0spp
Z Ned 5spp
Z Ted 0spp
Z Jed 5spp

Gl Skeedaddle 6spp +Ma
Wt Jaeger 1spp
Wt Meister 5spp
Fg Franken 5spp
Fg Steiner 2spp
Ww Growler 11spp Block
Ww Howler 17spp Block, +Ag

3 rerolls
4 FF
10k Treasury
127 TV

Took 5 games, but we are starting to look good!

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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by Digger Goreman »

Alright, concentrating on Necro and minoring in Undead, let's see if we can come up with a SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats) analysis by team/position:

Team
Strengths: 4 speedsters (wolves and ghouls), 2 frenzies (wolves), 2 blockers (wights), 2 dodgers (ghouls), 2 tough stand firms (golems), cheap linemen (zombies), most players regenerate
Weaknesses: Expensive rerolls, speed differential, most players lack personal reroll skills, lack of non-doubles access to passing skills, paucity of initial block and dodge, over pursuit
Threats: Knockouts and removal of limited ball carriers (Ag 3), teams with more inherent skills (especially block, St4+, tackle, MiB)
Opportunities: 2 TTd, switching field sides, penetration and turnover touchdowns, rare but occasional "raise the dead"

Players
Zombies:
Strengths: Av 8, Regeneration, Cheap (40k)
Weaknesses: Mv 4, Ag 2, Regen only 50/50, apothecary restricted, advance on random casualties and mvps, G access only
Threats: KOs, knockdowns, failed regens
Opportunites: Block, Wrestle, Tackle, Kick, DP (dirty player), guard on doubles, cheap marker

Golems:
Strengths: St 4, Av 9, Stand Firm, Thick Skull
Weaknesses: Ag 2, Mv 4, lack of football skills, advance on random casualties and mvps
Threats: knockdowns, failed regens, being marked, blockers, juggernaut
Opportunities: Block, Guard, MiB, Dodge on doubles

Ghouls:
Strengths: Mv 7, dodge
Weaknesses: Av 7, no regen nor access to apothecary
Threats: MiB, Tackle, Block, Stab, Chainsaws, Failed dodges
Opportunities: Block, Fend, Sure Hands, Wrestle, MiB/Leader on doubles

Wights:
Strengths: Block, Regen
Weaknesses: No dodge, failed regens, knockouts
Threats: Cheap markers, other blockers, Mib
Opportunities: Guard, MiB, Tackle, Dodge on doubles

Werewolves:
Strengths: Ma 8, Frenzy, Claws, Crowd Surfing of opponents
Weaknesses: No football skills, Frenzy, over pursuit
Threats: Block, failed regens, MiB, block baiting
Opportunities: Deep penetration and field coverage, Blodge, Sidestep, MiB on doubles

Let's flesh this out now.... I.e., tell me where we can add, subtract or modify the list....

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LRB6/Icepelt Edition: Ah!, when Blood Bowl made sense....
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Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood

Post by MKL »

On the Werewolves strenghts you forgot Claws :wink:

And I can add: crowd-surfing.
Frenzy+Ma8 can spring many a surprise on a careless oppponent, especially with a Golem's help.

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