(Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Necros vs the world of Blood Bowl

[squirrelfanatic]

So the first season of the league ended with a 3rd place for my guys (of 9 or so teams), with an unfortunate disconnect costing me a tied 1st (worse TD difference though). Oh well, next time. The next season is almost upon me and it looks as if I'll see even bashier teams this time around, lots of MB and Claw across the board. The predominant TV range will be between 1200 and 1400 TV I think, so more or less where my guys are at the moment.

Now I'm wondering if I should begin counteracting TV bloat. My Zombies just keep eating MVPs, I currently have 5 of 'em, all but one with a level-up. 1x Block, 1x Wrestle, 1x Kick (picked very recently, I'll have to see how that turns out for me), 1x regular roll pending. Dirty Player came to mind, I've seen some very successful coaches employ one or multiple of these guys, often to great effect. At the same time I'm not sure I want to have my Zombies carry around too much TV, as I sometimes have difficulties seeing their skills affect the game too much. And I still haven't even bought the second Ghoul yet! Got the bank though and a second Dodger might come in handy. But thats another 70k on top of the current ~1400TV team total.

[El_Jairo]

Grats on achieving 3rd spot Squirrelfanatic.

The next season is almost upon me and it looks as if I'll see even bashier teams this time around, lots of MB and Claw across the board. The predominant TV range will be between 1200 and 1400 TV I think, so more or less where my guys are at the moment.

I find it hard to believe that teams at this TV will have MB AND Claw across the board, OR maybe.

To answer your TV questions: having a skill on those zombies seems quite expensive as they increase 50% of their TV but that's still quite cheap (I'm mainly a Elf player) remember that it's not a luxury to be able to field a reserve zombie, as you will need them.
DP seems like a useful addition vs Bashier teams as they will like to develop a MBPO or CPOMB killers. Dirty Player is one off those skills which alters your opponent game-plan just by being on the pitch. And you can use some help at clearing the pitch in general as Necro's. I mainly see surfing as the way to remove opposition. You lack the skills, AV and strength that other bash teams have. You do have mobility and that is why you need that second Ghoul.

Remember that Blood Bowl (as any team ball game) is all about positioning. Being able to outrun the opponent is invaluable.

[squirrelfanatic]

Sorry, I meant that a lot of teams have MB and Claw on their roster, not that there's a lot of both on all the players. I've also did another count and maybe it's not as dire as I initially thought. Got some Nurgle with MB, Chaos with Claw+MB, Orcs with POMB. Bad enough though.

Your thoughts on DP pretty much reflect my own. I'll have to get the man advantage somehow and DP would be another weapon in my arsenal. Surfing is something that I still need to practice a bit more before I can pull it off reliably. Too often I find my own guys exposed on the sidelines after attempting to push a player into the crowd. Usually, the Golems should be there to provide protection, but more often than not I feel that I need their staying power in the center of the pitch.

Here's the current roster (1390TV before level-up):

Wolf #1 - Block, MB
Wolf #2 - Block
Golem #1 - n/a, 4SPPs
Golem #2 - Block
Wight #1 - Guard
Wight #2 - Guard
Ghoul #1 - Block
Zombie #1 - Block
Zombie #2 - Wrestle
Zombie #3 - Kick
Zombie #4 - normal roll, pending (possibly DP)
Zombie #5 - nothing

[squirrelfanatic]

Another small update, the next season of my league has kicked off and the first match has been played. Sadly lost 2-1 against some Orcs due to a really stupid beginner's mistake. On the final kick-off on turn 15 the score was tied 1-1 and the kick put the ball right in the endzone of the greenskins. At that point half my team was in the KO box but I was still able to arrange the defensive line in some sort of zig zag boat formation with each one remaining Wolf and Ghoul free to cover the backfield. My opponent moved a Blitzer in scoring range and sent his Thrower backfield to recover the ball. Naturally, I got overconfident and ignored the Blitzer for some reason to concentrate on getting a nice Blitz on a BOB with the Wolf... Yeah. The Thrower picked up (no RR left) and long-bombed the ball right into the arms of the free Blitzer. Absolutely awful play on my side, that lesson will stick I assume.

Still, a very fun game that I managed to get through without injuries. Block on the second Flesh Golem, a skill on my final Zombie (normal roll) and the MVP on a Wight (a victory in itself as far as I'm concerned) who's now 1 SPP away from the 2nd skill.

Updated roster with a request for input for the Zombie skill:

Wolf #1 - Block, MB
Wolf #2 - Block
Golem #1 - Block
Golem #2 - Block
Wight #1 - Guard
Wight #2 - Guard
Ghoul #1 - Block
Ghoul #2 - n/a, 3 SPP
Zombie #1 - Block
Zombie #2 - Wrestle
Zombie #3 - Kick
Zombie #4 - Dirty Player
Zombie #5 - normal roll, pending

1500TV

I'm currently thinking about cutting one of the Zombies seeing as I haven't got a double roll on any of them. On the other hand simply going with Block (alternatively Wrestle) would allow me to put 3 somewhat capable linemen on the LoS, I'd rather not have my Kicker or even a Golem standing there. The Dirty Player Zombie managed to get in exactly one foul that stunned (maybe KOed, not 100% sure) the target and then was sent off. Still, a fun tool to have around and another aspect of the game that I have to familiarise myself with.

[sann0638]

Yeah sure, that would be an option. I wasn't aware Twitter's part of the setup.

Question on the side: Did you build those boards/stadiums yourself? It looked as if there was at least some customisation going on.

Just spotted this - I did indeed! It's the Sannderdome

Polystyrene board in a foldable wooden box, quite snazzy. The next youtube vid included an overlay, but it seems that using OBS made the streaming a bit clunky. Might need to go back to hangouts.

Chaos dwarfs v Necro was game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkl4JAxCav4

[squirrelfanatic]

Very nice, I approve!

So, more team development discussion! My fellas have had some further outings and begin to shape up. One FG reached another skill-up and got Guard as a normal roll, happy with that. What's a bit more difficult for me to choose is the next skill for my Block+MB Wolfie. Rolled a 10, so either +MV (I'll ignore the +AV) or Dodge or Tackle as a regular skill. MV9 would be nice for reaching even further from one side of the pitch to the other on a switch play and might make scoring even easier. Flip side is, this guy is already hogging SPPs like there's a drought coming and I will lose him eventually.

So Dodge might be the choice that allows him to be more flexible until he'll eventually bite the dust, while Tackle would improve his performance as a killer right away (the next two games will be against Lizardmen teams with Skinks of varying proficiency, there's also a nasty looking Dark Elves side waiting for me somewhere down the line).

Looking at the role this piece will most likely play in the future and considering how lucky I was to get a double so early in his development, I'm inclined to take Dodge now and consider Tackle as the next non-double roll. But as so often, I wanted to hear some more voices on this before making the call.

[Digger Goreman]

Your choices:

Dodge, Mv8, Av8, goes down on a 6

Tackle, Mv8, Av8, goes down on a 5/6 (blodging opponents go down on a 5/6)

Mv9, Av8, goes down on a 5/6

Mv8, Av9, goes down on a 5/6

I have done all except tackle in the past and find each useful....

My preference is Blodge, Av, Mv, Tackle in that order....

[squirrelfanatic]

In the end I went with Dodge on the Wolf which so far appears to have paid off. Tackle will most likely follow with the next skill-up barring doubles. While it's likely that this decision is still a bit down the road, more pressing demands for skill selections have arisen. My Blodge Ghoul earned another skill-up (normal), as did the other, rookie, Ghoul (doubles) and the Block Wolfie (normal). So the current roster looks like this:

Wolf #1 - Blodge, MB
Wolf #2 - Block, pending normal skill
Golem #1 - Block, Guard
Golem #2 - Block
Wight #1 - Guard
Wight #2 - Guard
Ghoul #1 - Block, pending normal skill
Ghoul #2 - n/a, pending doubles skill
Zombie #1 - Block
Zombie #2 - Wrestle
Zombie #3 - Kick
Zombie #4 - Dirty Player
Zombie #5 - Block

Given that I'll be facing more Lizardmen and Dark Elves soon, I was considering Tackle on the Wolf, Tackle on the Block Ghoul, Guard on the rookie Ghoul. Alternative picks would be Dodge on the Wolf, Sure Hands on the Block Ghoul... still Guard on the other Ghoul. I was planning to get a safety Ghoul with Wrestle, Tackle, maybe Strip Ball, but the double roll is too good to pass by I feel.

Furthermore, I'm expecting the Wights to skill-up again soon, was thinking of giving them MB/Tackle (or vice versa), maybe a PO somewhere in between. That would imply a pretty big investment in Tackle though. Still undecided about that, what would you say is a good amount of Tackle for a Necro team in a perpetual league environment with a tendency towards bashy teams?

[MKL]

Guard on a Ghoul is far from ideal... but Guard is too good to pass, so take it and let's hope the ghoul got an useful career -if short, probably-

On the veteran Ghoul I would go Sure Hands: failing pick up is a bane of the Necros, and Skinks are very apt at stealing spilled balls. A defensive td for the Lizzies, and the game becomes really uphill.

On the Wolf I would go Tackle for the reason you exposed: you need it, right now.

I think a decent ratio of Tackle for an experienced team is 3 (2 Wolves + a Ghoul or Wight). Four Tackle on mobile players* is even better, but I never achieve it.
Tackle is most useful on the Wolves, especially on a MB one (he will eat up 90% of you blitzes), but sometimes a sidestepper would put your frenzied dogs in jeopardy, so you need someone that, on a push, can refrain from following.

*Zeds can use Tackle as second or third skill, but you cannot count on Zeds to be in position for a key action, so I don't count them for the ratio of 3-4 Tackle.

[crimsonsun]

while I recommend PO on Wights in a Undead team I do not believe its the optimum way to go with Necromantic sides, Guard, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm are far more essential to how the team synergies in my mind. However if your playing for maximum Carnage or more for enjoyment than winning leagues then PO on your Wights is great fun, I have 2 Superstar PO Wight's in my competition Necromantic side not because its the better choice for winning games but because it brings me joy to kill stuff.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Here are the two major winning Necro teams on fumbbl - https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=644035
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=710601

Ignoring the crazy prizes they are both built quite differently and prove that both Guard and PO builds can win as long as you have good dogs.

[squirrelfanatic]

Yeah, the thing with Guard on the Ghoul was a bit of a difficult decision (no, really), since my initial plan was to build him as a ball-sacker type with Wrestle, which obviously doesn't really work all that well with Guard. But since Guard is what it is, I took it. Also Tackle on both Wolf and Ghoul, just so I could have a better coverage of the field. As for the game against the Lizardmen team... well, it didn't go so well, lost 2-1. Made a series of really poor plays which cost me some very vital shots at enemy players and put me way out of position. Best/worst example would be a failed block action at the beginning of a turn that skulled and in turn cost me the whole remaining turn. Really basic stuff. In addition, I lost the coin flip and had to receive on turn 1 with a Wizard in my opponent arsenal. Oh well.

Rolled another double on a Block Zombie, took Guard, again. I'm slowly beginning to feel the bloat and considering to cut/rebuy a Zombie soon. Current roster:

Wolf #1 - Blodge, MB
Wolf #2 - Block, Tackle
Golem #1 - Block, Guard
Golem #2 - Block
Wight #1 - Guard
Wight #2 - Guard
Ghoul #1 - Block, Tackle
Ghoul #2 - Guard
Zombie #1 - Block, Guard
Zombie #2 - Wrestle
Zombie #3 - Kick
Zombie #4 - Dirty Player
Zombie #5 - Block

After taking a look at the two rosters Jimmy linked above (thanks for that), I noticed that both teams include several Zombies without any skills at all. I guess that's in order to keep the TV down while retaining a healthy amount of bodies for the LoS and marking duties? So maybe I could get rid of the Block or Wrestle Zombie and give either skill to the DP or Kick guy.

[MKL]

Well, 13 players with skills can be a lot.
How much are you using Dirty Player?
How much are you using Wrestle?

If they are useful, keep them: they are 20-40k tv, but if they are worth it...

I like skilled Zeds: I do a lot of blocking with them.
Paradoxically, it's the Wights that throw few blocks in my games: they are too busing giving mobile assist to do much blocking (and the Wolves do all the blitzing).
Same for the Ghouls: not much blocking/blitzing in my games: how much have you used that Tackle?

Edit: about "bloat", Necros aren't a lean team. Keeping the TV trim is relatively difficult. Sure as hell all that Guard isn't "bloat", but a boon

[Digger Goreman]

I mostly like the current roster and/but agree with MLK's analysis... adding that unskilled zeds failing and falling on their arses is annoying.... Iirc, you are playing in the terribly mini-maxing, artificial environment of fumbbl, but I really don't find cuts necessary at this point.... I feel you will learn, or have learned, to overcome any inducements....

My only thought: blodge the second wolf asap....

[Fassbinder75]

Ignoring the crazy prizes they are both built quite differently and prove that both Guard and PO builds can win as long as you have good dogs.

Which is really what the Necro list is all about - waiting for Nuffle's blessing so you can to take the gimp suit off your roster.