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 Post subject: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Necros vs the world of Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:05 pm 
Legend
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Realizing that my NecroTacticum is being used as a resource, and how basic that resource is, I would like to organize this thread as a repository of improvements to said document with an emphasis on tactical and practical applications. A meeting of the braaaainnnssss to promote the best practices for Necro teams....

So bring your most specific (or general) questions, my life-challenged friends, and let us destroy those for whom life is too lively!

All questions, at any time, are welcome.... Let me start off with this one: For League play (any specified team), what is your preferred starting lineup and how do you set them up for kicking and receiving?

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Last edited by Digger Goreman on Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:16 am 
Legend
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I humbly suggest it might be better as "NecroTacticon". Otherwise you appear to be mixing Greek and Latin elements.

All the best.

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:57 am 
Emerging Star
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Smeborg wrote:
I humbly suggest it might be better as "NecroTacticon". Otherwise you appear to be mixing Greek and Latin elements.

All the best.

Remember that Digger was the Achaean coach at the war of Troy, and died in the plague unleashed by Apollo. He was revived in Volterra during the 1st century CE for a grudge match against Tarquinia by a necromancer of etruscan ancestry but roman language. Such slips are to be expected in two thousand years old lich.

PS: as soon as I can, I will answer the original thread question :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:30 pm 
Legend
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MKL wrote:
Smeborg wrote:
I humbly suggest it might be better as "NecroTacticon". Otherwise you appear to be mixing Greek and Latin elements.

All the best.

Remember that Digger was the Achaean coach at the war of Troy, and died in the plague unleashed by Apollo. He was revived in Volterra during the 1st century CE for a grudge match against Tarquinia by a necromancer of etruscan ancestry but roman language. Such slips are to be expected in two thousand years old lich.

PS: as soon as I can, I will answer the original thread question :wink:


I like that!

My biggest struggles come in setting up vs movement capable teams that blitz and dodge/leap/get thrown to the ball or, as often happens, I fail the pickup and struggle for support vs obstensibly faster teams that find their way into the backfield.... Solutions?

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Back to the original questions:

Preferred roster: 1 W-Wolf, 2 Wights, 2 F-Golems, 1 Ghoul, 5 Zeds, 3 rr.
The Wolf is the ball carrier till he gain block. Then I skill up the second Wolf. Then, IF I can, I skill up the Ghouls, but don't try too hard. They are too frail -and not good enough- to spend too much spp on them.

Defense:
-against slow opponents I use asymmetrical Ziggurath (sometimes inverted Ziggurat). First zed to skill is a kicker. Only 1 Ghoul is deployed, unless I feel cocky or desperate.
-against faster opponents simple Ziggurat, sometimes inverted.

Offense:
Well, clearly that depends on the opponent's defence. Yet my usual rule of thumb is “don't overcommit”. My faster players rarely start in contact with the opponents. I get less blocks in the first turn than more aggressive coaches, but I can better cope with an early turnover.
I strive to keep a marking line across the field, so that in a “Blitz” event the opponent has to dodge through my players.
One Wolf is always uncommitted, ready to plunge in any point of crisis.


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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:24 pm 
Legend
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MKL wrote:
Back to the original questions:

Preferred roster: 1 W-Wolf, 2 Wights, 2 F-Golems, 1 Ghoul, 5 Zeds, 3 rr.
The Wolf is the ball carrier till he gain block. Then I skill up the second Wolf. Then, IF I can, I skill up the Ghouls, but don't try too hard. They are too frail -and not good enough- to spend too much spp on them.

Defense:
-against slow opponents I use asymmetrical Ziggurath (sometimes inverted Ziggurat). First zed to skill is a kicker. Only 1 Ghoul is deployed, unless I feel cocky or desperate.
-against faster opponents simple Ziggurat, sometimes inverted.

Offense:
Well, clearly that depends on the opponent's defence. Yet my usual rule of thumb is “don't overcommit”. My faster players rarely start in contact with the opponents. I get less blocks in the first turn than more aggressive coaches, but I can better cope with an early turnover.
I strive to keep a marking line across the field, so that in a “Blitz” event the opponent has to dodge through my players.
One Wolf is always uncommitted, ready to plunge in any point of crisis.


Very interesting.... So all your points are spent and you have 3 rerolls to start.... My response to the ghoul problem is not to employ them and use two wolves and only two rerolls.... Obviously I lose the use of the reroll and gain another super-piece at the cost of doubling my liability by having a second frenzy-sans-block piece on the board (my opponents love to "back tag" wolves and force them to frenzy away from the goal line or dodge with a one-in-three failure rate).... I have even gone with only one reroll, two wolves and a ghoul to pressure the ball carrier and enjoyed a higher opponent turn over rate... but have a higher turn over rate myself....

Questions:

What is the role of the lone ghoul?

On average, how many games does it take to get the second werewolf?

Can we have diagrams or pics of your setups?

Thanks for the replies!

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:12 pm 
Star Player
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I'm new to the necro team (otherwise playing with a dwarf team) , but I thought I'd through in my 2 cents anyway.
So far I've just played one game against rookie dwarfs (1-1), so keep that in mind.

Starting roster
2 WWs
2 Ghouls
2 Wights
5 Zombies
3 RR

Reasoning behind the roster
I wanted speed, hence all the >M4-players. I also see the Flesh Golums as road blocks and I think they can play that roll quite well with their starting skills. However, the wolfs need block asap.
That's also the reason behind the rerolls. Without them the lack of block on the wolfs would show even more.

Starting line up (Offence)
Three zombies and two Wights on the LOS (Wights positioned so they can get 2D-Blocks, ie usually ZWZWZ)
One ghouls far back (Four squares from the end zone, on the hatch) in each wide zone
One wolf forward (Three to four squares behind the LOS) in each wide zone)
Two zombies three squares behind the LOS

Idea behind this is to block down the opponents on the LOS and run up the remaining zombies to mark players.
One of the two remaining zombies put a tackle zone on the ball.
Blitz with the wolf furthest from the ball (suppoerted by a zombie, could be the one in the backfield that's not by the ball)
Pick the ball up with the closest ghoul
If succesfull, create a screen with the remaining ghoul and wolf after moving the ball carrier towards the LOS and a side of choice.

Let the opponent commit and if you can't get through, change side.

This would probably just work against slower opponents, so for say an elf team, I'd go for a normal cage play, which changes things a bit.

Starting line up (Defence)
Three zombies on the LOS
The rest of your players line up in two inverted u's with the wights towards the side line.
(The cKnoor formation, if you know what I mean)

Don't know if it all makes sence..


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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:41 pm 
Emerging Star
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Ok Digger, onward with the answers.

@Roster: you hit the nail on the head. I want to avoid the double liability of 2 rookie wolves with just 2 rr.
Typically I need 3 games to buy the 2nd wolf: usually the first one is fairly skilled at the time (around 2nd skill). Then, the new wolf become the ball carrier.

@Ghoul: the role of the Ghoul is "picking the short straw". He's mobile, almost like the wolf, yet expendable. Need to plug a gap in the line? Keep busy that Black Orc? Screen the Wolf? The Ghoul is there.
Having Dodge, the Ghoul is the only player I can commit with good chance to dodge away the next turn.
Note: people love to target the ghoul. This is useful to keep the heat away from the wolf, and against rookie teams I found the Ghoul is fairly durable.

@tactics for starting team.
In defense, with just 1 wolf and 1 ghoul I don't pressure much in the opposing backfield. I await he's committed, put a F-Golem to act as anvil and pressure with the hammer: a ghoul, wight or wolf.
Till the opponent is uncommitted the wolf act as an opportunistic predator, blitzing easy prey to gain superior number and retreating immediately behind Zeds and Golems. Till the Wolf is unmarked, the opponent has to keep honest.

During the offense I blitz a lot with the Golems, usually on the sidelines. They gain some toehold without asking for assist, and keep it against most reactions. This way the cage can inch forward. If the opponent commit a lot of players to stopping the Golems, usually I can engineer some crowd surf. Failing this, I switch side.

Later I will look for a way to post some schematics...


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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:06 pm 
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Just out of curiosity...
Dont you think the thread would be more usefull at talking about the NecroTacticum if you would post a link somewhere to it that people actually could read it without being bothered to google it?

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:58 pm 
Legend
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Sorry, Doodle, here it is: Necro-Tacticum

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:57 pm 
Star Player
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Looking at the necro team I have some disagreements, the most notable one in the Zombie skill selection area:

Most Zombies should get Block first, with one Zombie getting Kick asap.


One you get a full roster you'll have 8 positionals and 3 zombies for defense.

That means all the Zs go on the line and can't use kick.

Further, on a cheap piece unlikely to get more then 2 skills that won't carry the ball, wrestle is superior to block. When you have those 5 scary chaos players on the line, do you want to go down on a double down (taking down a much more expensive player for a turn) or to take another hit and leave the opponent up? Further, wrestle makes them useful in taking down blodge threats and works better on them then any other Necro player.


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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:25 pm 
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swilhelm73 wrote:
Looking at the necro team I have some disagreements, the most notable one in the Zombie skill selection area:

Most Zombies should get Block first, with one Zombie getting Kick asap.


One you get a full roster you'll have 8 positionals and 3 zombies for defense.

That means all the Zs go on the line and can't use kick.

Further, on a cheap piece unlikely to get more then 2 skills that won't carry the ball, wrestle is superior to block. When you have those 5 scary chaos players on the line, do you want to go down on a double down (taking down a much more expensive player for a turn) or to take another hit and leave the opponent up? Further, wrestle makes them useful in taking down blodge threats and works better on them then any other Necro player.


I agree with the wrestle on Zombies, but I could also see it on one of the ghouls.
On defence, I think I'd put my blodge ghoul in reserve for a kicking Zombie. He won't add to much to your TV and it might be good to keep one Zombie on the bench anyhow


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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:34 am 
Legend
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Digger - most of my practical experience with Necros has been playing against them, but here goes:

- I regard a starting or early Necro team with 2RR and no Sure Hands as rather easy to beat. This is because they tend to blow the RRs on blocking/blkitzing with the Wolves/Golems, meaning they are stranded when it comes to picking up or moving the ball. Thus I recommend starting with 3RRs. Sure Hands is important as an early skill; it greatly helps the RR situation.

- Starting rosters: I personally favour 1WW/2FGs/2Wights/1Ghoul/5Zs/3RRs, with purchases of 1WW/1Ghoul/1Z to follow (in any suitable order). However, I have also played against (and been beaten by) a developed Necro roster with no Ghouls. Thus I believe a no Ghoul roster is viable (although it may not be to everyone's taste). If you plan to take no Ghouls, you will need to develop at least 1 Wight as a ball-handler (Runner), starting with Sure Hands.

-Kick: I agree this is quite an important skill on this team. Related to this, I favour split development for the 2 Ghouls, 1 as a Runner (S-Hands, Block, K-Ret etc.), 1 as a ball-hunting sweeper (safety) starting with Wrestle. The Runner is left in reserves on defense (to protect him, and to make way for the Kicker).

- Zombie doubles: Guard is outstanding, a Zombie with Block+Guard is one of those supremely annoying players for the opponent.

Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:57 pm 
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Step one: Don't take any werewolves. Step two: Play a real team like elves, dwarves, amazon, lizardmen, skaven, or slann. :) :P

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 Post subject: Re: (Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Undead vs the world of Blood
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:17 am 
Legend
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Digger - the most difficult practical decisions I face with Necros are how to skill up the Wights and Golems. It's easy to say what skills they should get, but as to the order of those skills, I find it rather difficult.

Hope that helps.

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