Help me bring my game up to tier 1 standard

[crimsonsun]

Thanks for the responses highly appreciated. Its the games where that critical pick up attempt goes against you or you simply cannot break armour I am looking to mitigate. 9/10 when I lose a game I know exactly why, a one turn lapse when I was talking with my Mrs, or a stupid positioning early in the game before I'm fully switched on but there are times when I just don't know how to change the result, as the game is decided by a single failed pick up or my Elf opponent getting 3 blitzes in a row but I feel its the ability to mitigate the luck factor that truly makes a good bb coach. Honestly I feel that as much as luck is involved in Bloodbowl it decides maybe 5% or the games people say were down to the dice.

Oddly I feel slightly differently about my builds than you suggested, as I feel the only skill that's critical for Tomb Guardians is Guard, mighty blow while nice does not have as big an effect, and while I always build one blitz Ra to be a Killer I do not like two POMB players as it places to many of my players on the floor which makes it far more difficult to counter for opponents speed. Otherwise I am full agreement regarding numbers, I have found breaking point to be a 3 player advantage to my opponent, I just cannot counter that big a difference and control the pitch effectively.

The issue with a tight cage is that with the right skills (grab, Juggernaut and frenzy) your ball carrier can be chain pushed out of its protection and totally exposed, its actually a tactic I have used to break down opposing cages when on defence, so I tend to use a slightly looser formation that still provides guarded support and full tackle zone coverage. My only issue with Leapers is early build as I do not start with Throw Ra's for a long term team (as you pointed out losing games early league means nothing) so have no strip ball defence and have been utterly torn apart defensively as a result. As an aside about leaping Wrestlers, I actually hunt wrestle players during the first half if I can, my Killers always have Juggernaut for that specific reason, in combination with Tackle those guys if left exposed tend to become smears pretty quickly.

I agree regarding the defence holding out verses letting in a quick score, though I have judged it wrong a multiple occasions sometimes though its very difficult to judge of course. & Yes lateral defence is the key as if the play becomes stretched Khemri are the easiest team in the game to out position, its not just our below average speed but the combination of that, terrible agility and no agility access for skills.

Another question that I've asked in many places before and never had a sensible answer too is how to beat Vampire with Khemri WITHOUT counting on player removal. Against any good coach at high TV the best result I have managed is a draw. I know target the thralls and put tackle zones on the vampires but man if your armour/injury rolls are not happening its just feels impossible and the critical issue I feel in regards to tactics is if you cannot win a game 11 v 11 then your tactics are not good enough and you need to change something, yes removing players helps and make things easier but at the end of the day its something that should improve your performance rather than something you count on to create a top performance...

Thanks Crimsonsun

[mattgslater]

But… Vampires' main weakness is how susceptible they are to a dedicated, patient removal strategy: with no speed, no armor, and Blood Lust, getting the Thralls out of the picture early is the easiest way to win. I find I like to kick first, see if I can grind a bit so the second half goes more my way. It's a lot harder to gaze your way into a cage if you have no support.

When that doesn't work, in two-layer cages and TPOMB you must trust. I don't like to PO all the time, but I like to have two so I can protect the ball with one and go a-hunting with the other.

Guard is excellent on Tomb Guardians, can't fault that pick even if it's not what I do.

[fidius]

The problem with the Fumbbl Ranking list is that it includes teams from pre-LRB6, which was when the roster was quite different (and the team more effective).

If you want to watch replays of top players using Khemri I can recommend a few guys (others may suggest more):

anisdrin has an undefeated Khemri team in Ranked called Ghostship. His competition has not necessarily been top-tier but he's still a good example.

simon_MLF absolutely OWNED me in our most recent match, here: https://fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3565193. I'm very average, and was playing silly Pact with bloated +AG guys with no other skills, plus he got some good CAS dice, but even absent those things he severely outplayed me, playing Khemri the way they have to be played. Again, his competition has not been great so far with that team, but it's obvious he knows what he's doing.

The fumbbl fellow who plays Khemri almost exclusively is BigGuy. Does pretty well with them.

Type the coach's name in the search box, go to their Overview page, hover over More^ then click Matches. Then click on the green circle beside a match. Watch some replays.

[sann0638]

For example: https://www.fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3561362

Click Replay at the top.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

This is a good game to watch https://www.fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3151369

I think Tarabaralla is maybe the best coach on fumbbl and he started 17/7/1 with Khemri but then ended up with not a great record - https://www.fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&s ... _id=643417

Looking at the top list that MGS linked to and going from what I know about the coaches I would say Purplechest and Azure are the standouts as they are both top tier coaches with all races, up near the top with Khemri, and they have differing styles.

[20phoenix]

Another question that I've asked in many places before and never had a sensible answer too is how to beat Vampire with Khemri WITHOUT counting on player removal. Against any good coach at high TV the best result I have managed is a draw. I know target the thralls and put tackle zones on the vampires but man if your armour/injury rolls are not happening its just feels impossible and the critical issue I feel in regards to tactics is if you cannot win a game 11 v 11 then your tactics are not good enough and you need to change something, yes removing players helps and make things easier but at the end of the day its something that should improve your performance rather than something you count on to create a top performance...

Thanks Crimsonsun

One thing which I rarely see mentioned is making gazing as tough as possible. If you stand players next to each other it either means both players have to be gazed or the coach has to try a 4+ instead. Probably haven't explained it very well but to get an idea of what I mean take a look at my OCC game against Scaron this season. Even though he wasn't removing players he made things very difficult as I had to hit a string of gazes to get to the carrier which I generally failed. In the end he only lost thanks to a failed knock down leaving my ST5 vamp in contact with a corner which allowed me a risky chainpush to get the carrier out of the cage.

[crimsonsun]

Another question that I've asked in many places before and never had a sensible answer too is how to beat Vampire with Khemri WITHOUT counting on player removal. Against any good coach at high TV the best result I have managed is a draw. I know target the thralls and put tackle zones on the vampires but man if your armour/injury rolls are not happening its just feels impossible and the critical issue I feel in regards to tactics is if you cannot win a game 11 v 11 then your tactics are not good enough and you need to change something, yes removing players helps and make things easier but at the end of the day its something that should improve your performance rather than something you count on to create a top performance...

Thanks Crimsonsun

One thing which I rarely see mentioned is making gazing as tough as possible. If you stand players next to each other it either means both players have to be gazed or the coach has to try a 4+ instead. Probably haven't explained it very well but to get an idea of what I mean take a look at my OCC game against Scaron this season. Even though he wasn't removing players he made things very difficult as I had to hit a string of gazes to get to the carrier which I generally failed. In the end he only lost thanks to a failed knock down leaving my ST5 vamp in contact with a corner which allowed me a risky chainpush to get the carrier out of the cage.

I know exactly what you mean, its actually what I was meaning by putting tackle zones on the vampires, it is along with a double cage the best defence I have come up with...

[Digger Goreman]

I play vamps occasionally, and not very well, but I'm always looking for that series of gazes to open an easy path to the ball/carrier.... If you can make a vamp roll three sets of 1d6 you have a 50% chance of him rolling a 1 in that sequence....

Tag the vamps that are needed and he will have to roll bloodlust, dodge and gaze to help his mates....

Dice rolling kills the vamp side....

[Smeborg]

crimsonsun - I feel your pain, though I am not sure I have a good answer to your question.

As I understand it, you struggle with Khemri to recover from a bad position (e.g. a failed die roll), and at TV c.200 you struggle in particular against Skaven, HE, DE (sometimes), and Vamps (if no numbers advantage).

Well, these are exactly the failings I would expect from Khemri. Of all the teams, they are perhaps the least able to recover from a bad position (e.g. a spilt ball), and AG teams seem to do well against them at most levels of TV. Khemri can be quite good if well coached, but perhaps they are simply not destined for the "top tier". The paper/scissors/rock game appears to favour the AG teams in their case. Maybe your expectations of them are too high.

The worst [league] defeat I ever suffered with Nurgle was a 0-4 defeat at the hands of mid-TV Vampires, following a single bad die roll. I was about to score to go 1-0 up, but failed a GFI to the end zone (with RR, but in a Blizzard). I was then comprehensively cleaned up. The combination of (a) chasing the game, (b) Hypno-Gaze against "heavy" tackle zones, and (c) not getting a significant numbers advantage was greatly to the disadvantage of Nurgle. I imagine the situation with Khemri would be similar. Note that had I scored the TD, I would have been 1-0 up and in a good position for the match, unlikely to lose. However, once I was behind, it was like I had nowhere to go but further down. That seems to be what well-coached Vamps can sometimes do against a clunky team.

Hope that helps.

[crimsonsun]

I fully agree if you go down out of sequence with a team like Nurgle or Khemri, you may as well throw caution to the wind and take risks for a chance at a draw or a win, the worst that will happen is you lose by more. Obviously touch down difference has a role to play but I feel its worth the risk. I got caught 4-0 by Dark Elves this Season doing exactly that, I held them to turn 5 (even got the ball off them and was unlucky not to break away for a defensive touch down) but they managed to pull in a touch down, then blitz touch down. 2nd half blitz touch down, blitz touch down, perfect defence... nuffles a c*nt sometimes....

[Smeborg]

I forgot, I also had a tourney match (World Cup), Nurgle vs. Skaven, which went the same way.

In a Blizzard, my opponent opted to receive, he got a Blitz! at the first kick-off (combined with a short kick). I somewhat amazingly managed to recover the ball (a GR had spilt the catch), but failed my second GFI to get away from the sideline (where my ball-carrier would likely have been surfed). My rolls got worse from that point. 0-4 defeat. My Italian opponent was a good coach and a good sport, he was disappointed to have such an easy ride. I had several good opportunities to get back into the match, they all failed. But at least I tried for the team (TD difference was of no consequence in this format).

No doubt you will recognise all that from a Khemri perspective.

[mattgslater]

Wow. In 17 years and probably close to 1500 games combined TT and online, with 22 races and against all 24, I've lost 0-4 but once*. Maybe I should play Khemri more.

* These guys don't count.

[Smeborg]

I lost 0-6 once, with DEs in about Gold or 4th Edition. I had 2 Minotaurs with Wild Animal, who had to take their actions (blocks) first, before other players. These 2 cows caused 9 turnovers between them, so I had 7 turns, while my opponent had 16.

[Fassbinder75]

I lost 0-6 once, with DEs in about Gold or 4th Edition. I had 2 Minotaurs with Wild Animal, who had to take their actions (blocks) first, before other players. These 2 cows caused 9 turnovers betwen them, so I had 7 turns, while my opponent had 16.

I see why you call them Minotards, now.

[mattgslater]

They used to be unplayably bad. Now they're just bad.