Talk Fantasy Football

I am thinking of playing Norse next season, so I am starting to think about development paths for the team.

All the ST players have Frenzy, and thus cannot take Grab. So I am wondering if anyone has experimented with Grab elsewhere on the team (for example, second doubles on a Lino, after Guard, or, more adventurously, first doubles on a Runner).

It seems 1 or 2 Grab players might add a lot to this team when it comes to "surf's up".

Let me know.

As a fun gimmicky thing to do for a second double on a lino, I guess you could take Grab. I'd rather have Mighty Blow and Guard, but whatever.

it could be useful, but at the expense of more useful skills. As a gimmick on a dwarf team it might be better used setting up crowd surfs for the trollslayers

Maybe for second double on a lino, but a blodge guarder would be far more useful than a block guarber (guard grabber!) imo.

Grab is also a surfskilm. Alot of sidestep will make the frenzy surf not working, and the Grab player will do the trick!!!

No. Opportunity cost is too great.

Jimmy Fantastic wrote:No. Opportunity cost is too great.

Jimmy, what are your choices then for second doubles on a Norse Lino, or first doubles on a Norse Runner?

Dodge/MB, Guard/Leader

As an aside, I'd prefer it if more (as in any, with apologies to the apes) teams featured Grab out of the box as a bit more of a counter to Side Step spam.

I think its worth putting a bit of Grab on Norse just out of curiosity.

One of the reasons for my original question is that I find myself blocking quite a lot with the Runners, especially on the LoS, where they can do so safely (the Frenzy players can be trapped). The Runners are a somehwat bipolar blend of ST and AG. Against almost any team with plentiful ST4+ players, I find their Dauntless much more useful than their MA7 and AG skill access.

So I am looking for a way (such as the right doubles skill) to improve their blocking ability, especially (but not only) at the set piece. Maybe M-Blow would be better than Grab, I don't know. Guard doesn't seem to work right on the Runners, they are the ones who take the blitz or first block against ST4+ players, they need to be given assists, rather than provide them. And when they are not blocking high ST players, they like to range free, where Guard can be of little use.

[Background: My philosophy of Norse, such as it is, based on limited playing experience with the current roster, is as follows:

- I don't take the SnoT (that's the Snow Troll, whatever he is called now, he's a waste of fur).
- I take all the other positionals, including both Throwers (although 1 or none are both fine at a pinch).
- I would not call Norse a passing team, but a team that needs a decent passing option. They are quite good at forcing the opposing team to score early, but can struggle to score in (say) 2 turns without a Thrower. They can get into trouble on offense, not always predictably; being able to move the ball quickly over a long distance can get them out of jail.
- Using a Thrower to pick up the ball leaves the Runners free to block using their Dauntless, something I do a lot, another reason for taking the Throwers.
- The second Thrower can take Leader, 3RR + Leader seems a good amount for this team, they have a high risk appetite. When it comes to moving the ball, Pass + RR is a common and decent option.
- For a long time I considered the Throwers useless, but I have changed my mind for the above reasons; the team seems to work more harmoniously with them. This is especially obvious with the role and development path of the Runners.]

That is just a roundabout way of explaining why I am particularly interested in doubles skill choices for the Runners. With Throwers on my version of the team, it looks like ST skills are the only doubles choices remaining for the Runners.

All the best.

I ran a little experiment on Fumbbl Box recently with 3 Norse teams:
Team #1: Killer team: All 5 Strength players take MB/PO after Block; Guard on Linos (conventional wisdom, highly original, yawn)
Team #2: Min/max team: take only Yhetee and Ulfs, no Zerkers or Runners; give Yhetee POMB and Ulfs a mix of Guard/MB; Guard on Linos
Team #3: Surf team: All 5 Strength players take Guard first skill, then Stand Firm (Juggs on 1 Ulf, MB on Yhetee); Linos get Grab on doubles

My results have been massively skewed: 1/10/5 (W/L/T) on Killer, 8/3/1 on Min/max, and 5/0/4 on Surf. So the Surf team is running away with it (no losses). Killer team has been miserable to play. Granted, much depends on quality of opponents and dice (Killer team is jinxed I swear), but the Guard has really helped the Surf team big-time, to the point that I think it's my new favourite way to start Norse. I haven't got the surf theme started yet really: first doubles on a Lino was on a guy who already had Tackle, so I took MB instead, then I rolled two +STs on others... Not bad... And no room for Grab yet. But it will come, hopefully on the +ST fellows.

My thinking on Surf is that MB is not required if you're more reliably de-pitching using the sidelines. It's not so desirable in League of course because there is no SPP benefit, but in Box skilling players quickly is not so important. Caveat: in a TV-matched environment you don't want the Linos to have skills unless they have something interesting (doubles, stats), so in that respect the focus becomes the S players in terms of development. The team's weakness will obviously be vulnerability to MB/PO, but that's not so different from any other Norse team.

If you take Guard first you may find the Runner's Dauntless is not so important. I went without him for a long time, not sure I'll take him on the min/max team especially, as he's very expensive (as are the Blitzers really).

Thanks, fidius, nice post, and an interesting experiment.

All the best.

fidius - I have some confidence in your experiment, as the results are in line with what I have observed in our league. 2 or 3 Norse teams developed in the "traditional" killer style have done not very well (although their matches were quite sporting). A Norse killer team goes squish just as easily as any Norse team, perhaps more so. I prefer to develop a team built to take on anybody.

My own experiment was to take a Norse team in our occasional open league, with only the AV7 players (I have a certain nostalgia for the "original" Norse roster). Guard as first skill on the 'Zerks, and as first doubles on the Linos. Dodge as first doubles on the 'Zerks. Fend as first normal skill on the Linos, and as second normal skill on other players. Surprisingly resilient, the team has 6 wins, 2 losses, no draws (but the sample is not representative, it includes cherry-picking by both me and my opponents). Here it is:

'Zerk: Guard, Fend (17 SPPs)
'Zerk: Dodge (10)
Runner: +AG, Dodge (28)
Runner: Guard (8)
Thrower: -
Thrower: -
Lino: +ST (10)
Lino: Fend (8)
Lino: Fend (8)
Lino: Fend (7)
Lino: Guard (7)
Lino: - (3)
Lino: -
Lino: -
3 RRs, FF6, Apoth, TV:149

The team is odd (The Fender Benders is their name). It feels too light (I feel the need for the Ulfs). The Throwers were bought last and out of necessity (I have only 8 Linemen figurines), hence they have no SPPs. The +AG Runner does all the ball movement. The Runner with Guard seems out of place, his Guard is difficult to deploy, and he is the one who needs the Guard assists. He is a main reason for my OP. With both Runners not being used to block much (wasting their Dauntless), and the Throwers not being used as such, the team feels somewhat dysfunctional.

I will likely follow your "surf" experiment, i.e. (Block), Guard, S-Firm, Jugs on the ST access players, Grab as first doubles on the Linos and Runners, otherwise I will probably follow the successful bits of the Fender Benders. The differences are that I will not take the SnoT (Snow Troll). I will also consider Fend instead of S-Firm (Fend is a skill, I feel, that only really works en masse, then the team becomes genuinely annoying, hard to pin down and mobile).

When I have thought about it a bit more, I will post the strategy in more detail.

All the best.

The Dauntless on Runners was always going to feel quirky - they are natural ball-carriers due to Agility acces and MA7, so conceptually the only time they'll be hitting is to blitz through the last line of defense and dodge for the score. Your +AG guy in particular is gold, I wouldn't force it with him, keep him carrying and he'll win games on his own. The Guard guy will eventually be highly irritating with Dodge/Sidestep, also a pretty effective combo. Ironically the Guarder will see his Dauntless kick in more once he is able to more safely stay in contact with Sidestep.

My thinking with Stand Firm over Fend on Zerkers is that a) it is safer on the surf, b) it is better to stay in contact for the surf game, and c) it combos with Jump Up. Obviously staying in contact is only a good idea if you can line up a reasonable block, which is what the Guard is for.

I like Fend but disagree that it is better en masse. It's awesome in the right spot at the right time, and can be a real irritant especially when it is forgotten, which happens frequently on tabletop. I do take it by default on Linos, unless the team needs Tackle.

If you're really bent on using Dauntless I'd put it on a Lino and go from there, it's really just a throw-in on Runners imo.

fidius wrote:If you're really bent on using Dauntless I'd put it on a Lino and go from there, it's really just a throw-in on Runners imo.

Thanks, fidius.

I think it depends on the opponent. If you are playing (say) Orcs, Chaos, Khemri, Nurgle, then the Dauntless on the Runners is most valuable. Against ST3 teams, sure, the Runners play as Runners/Receivers. Bear in mind that I play most of my games at low and mid-TV.

All the best.