How to avoid... The Claw!

Want to know how to beat your opponents, then get advice, or give advice here.

Moderators: Valen, TFF Mods

Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Chris »

So my new OCC league is claw-a-rama. Bad news for my very conventional Orcs.

How then to avoid the deprivations of... the claw!

Reason: ''
User avatar
lunchmoney
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: The Dark Future

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by lunchmoney »

Mark the claw players with your goblins.
Hit them first.
Run away (not the best solution for Orcs)
Hit them again.

Reason: ''
Hired Goon for the NAF (rep for South West England)
Image
lunchmoneybb@gmail.com

TOs! You do not need multiple copies of rosters. It's a waste of paper.
Bribe level: good coffee.
#FlingNation find me on page 95
Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Chris »

I have one goblin with catch, whose role in life is to get thrown by the troll turn 16.

Considering these beasts have block and often tackle, I doubt the gobo's would last long.

Reason: ''
Ullis
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Posts: 1630
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Finland

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Ullis »

Don't worry too much. I think the worst thing you can do is get all fearful and try and avoid contact at all costs, leave your most valuable players on the bench etc.

Guard and positioning should help a lot against Claw by denying them 2-d blocks. Also, hitting back yourself and fouling Piling On players on the ground will finish the job.

Reason: ''
Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Chris »

Game 1 of season - strength 4 werewolf plus his skilled mate with guarding wights and golums. I hates them I do. I mean why regen as well?

Reason: ''
User avatar
Fassbinder75
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:47 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Fassbinder75 »

Chris wrote:Game 1 of season - strength 4 werewolf plus his skilled mate with guarding wights and golums. I hates them I do. I mean why regen as well?
Bah, Necro are a paper tiger! Stay away from the sidelines, and inevitably his wolves will get stuck in base contact. Mark up the golems with linos or blockers which should leave your blitzers to pick of the wolves. Once you get rid of even one, they're a pretty toothless outfit.

Reason: ''
minimakeovers.wordpress.com
MattDakka
Super Star
Super Star
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:36 pm
Location: Italy

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by MattDakka »

When you kick off deploy your team deep in your half, just out of blitz reach, and let your opponent approach, then try to mark as many players as possible and use your Guards wisely, blitzing every turn with your pomb Blitzer the clawpomb beastmen.
The outcome of such a match is very luck based, if clawpomb doesn't work well you have a chance, a deep bench is useful, of course.

Reason: ''
Image
Smeborg
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3544
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:02 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Smeborg »

If it is Claw combined with PoMB that worries you, Fend will do the trick.

Reason: ''
Smeborg the Fleshless
MattDakka
Super Star
Super Star
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:36 pm
Location: Italy

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by MattDakka »

Smeborg wrote:If it is Claw combined with PoMB that worries you, Fend will do the trick.
Too bad that you need Fend on many players (so a lot of TV), while a single Clawpomber (way less TV) is already an issue, he can simply target the players without Fend, not to mention that Juggernaut and Grab counter Fend.

Reason: ''
Image
Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Chris »

Also, it is a 2000tv odd Orc team so next skill slots aren't available for quite a few games...

Reason: ''
User avatar
Jimmy Fantastic
Super Star
Super Star
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:38 pm

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Jimmy Fantastic »

You can't. Clawpomb is a hard counter to Orcs at high TV, use a better team if you want to win.

Reason: ''
MattDakka
Super Star
Super Star
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:36 pm
Location: Italy

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by MattDakka »

By the way posting the Orc roster could help.

Reason: ''
Image
Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Chris »

I would if I could...

Problems accessing it currently, but when I get a better connection I will.

Reason: ''
Smeborg
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3544
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:02 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by Smeborg »

I think you could develop an Orc team to be better (or rather, less bad) at defending against Claw teams, but it would lose effectiveness against most other teams. Here is one idea, though, for a team built to both survive and perform decently:

Troll, 4xBoBs, 4xBlitzers, 4xLinos, 1x Gobbo, 3xRR, Apoth (base TV:122)

The Troll and the Gobbo only come onto the field when attempting a one-turn-score (or when forced). To improve the one-turn-score, always try to keep a RR in hand for the end of the half. And for the same purpose, don't take Throwers, instead develop 2 Blitzers as Runners (starting with Sure Hands, Kick-off Return).

Consider developing the Linos: Wrestle, Fend (for use on the defensive LoS). Note that i don't recommend Wrestle if you plan to take Piling On on other players. Consider Fend as a skill on other players (e.g. 3rd skill on the Blitzer/Runners).

Consider taking Dodge as the most common doubles skill (both for resilience, and for its general purpose goodness against most teams). (However, Sure Feet/Sprint may be better on the Blitzer/Runners.}

With 14 players, all of them AV9 (except the Gobbo), the team would be quite resilient (AV9 does not help against Claw, but it does help against fouls and falling over on dodges and GFIs). Improve the resilience by taking a Wandering Apoth and Babe(s) as inducements of choice (against Claw teams, that is).

Hope that helps. I don't think the concept is a lost cause, it just won't have been tried much. The team may be a bit drawish.

Reason: ''
Smeborg the Fleshless
crimsonsun
Experienced
Experienced
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:00 am

Re: How to avoid... The Claw!

Post by crimsonsun »

I am assuming your talking about our division...

http://bbm.jcmag.fr/BloodBowlManager.We ... 67&lang=en

Honestly though mate this season I would not stress about Claw at all, but normally the best counter to it is GUARD simple as that. Now I do not know if you read my division overview in the Khemri section of the league forums but I went though every team in detail.

Honestly going though your team it looks to me like you carry too much redundancy in your squad, by which I mean skills that do not have synergy with each other when considered as a team. First up 3 PO, now while I feel a Orc team can understandably have 2 killers 3 is too many simply because if your putting that many players on the floor you will not be able to maintain the numbers you need to win the positional battle against your opponent, add to that it completely nullifies the point of those players having the skill. Add in the increased liability of two players having frenzy (which means they need support, though the strength 4 one less so) which I imagine will often leave those guys out of place making solid positioning even more difficult.

While you have skills for passive pitch control (Stand Firm, Guard, Side-Step, Diving Tackle, Fend, Tackle, & wrestle type skills)) the squad is hugely lacking in skills for Active Pitch control with only a single Grab, and two Frenzy (Grab, Juggernaut, Jump Up, pass block, break tackle, Frenzy & wrestle type skills) meaning your really going to struggle to overcome a solidly positioned opponent with plenty of passive control skills, which is made worse since you lack the speed or agility to out pace teams positioned like this giving you the only option of attempting to go though them.

Finally from our previous game I remember you made the most common mistake I see in Orc, Dwarf & Chaos Dwarf coaches which is to force the engagement at the cost of giving away too many blocks, relying on your Armour and Blocking ability to see you though. This is silly give away as few blocks as humanly possible and serious consider every follow up before you make it. I say this time and time again but remember you to not need a direct tackle zone to control your opponents movement instead use your players to restrict your opponents options and though this force them to either engage you or attempt a high risk dodging play though your team.

Therefore my suggestions to avoid Claw would be to force the opponent to engage you, thus providing you with additional blocks and not getting hit beyond a blitz in return and build for more Active/Passive control skills that will allow you to neutralise Claw players by pure positioning. Get some Wrestle Line Orcs and stick them in the path of Claw hitters also since they offer all kinds of frustration to the opponent, use these guys on the LoS to reduce the effects of Claw hits from the Kick Off, as with wrestle suddenly 33% of block results are negative for your opponent and 66% mean your player is fine.

While I could go on further I will leave it there simply as I need to play you in 3-4 weeks I believe! lol

crimsonsun

PS - Drop all that bloat in terms of Cheerleaders/Assistant Coaches what the hell are you giving up a babe for in those!!

Reason: ''
Post Reply