Chaos vs. Pact - Who's the brawler

[stashman]

Simple question, what team is the best brawler:
PACT or CHAOS?

Pact:
3 big guys
Cheaper linemen

Chaos:
One big guy
4 warriors

I'm off trying to build a really brutal team just to show our league that massive claw, mighty blow and piling on is devastating!!! I'm willing to test CRP+ and half of us, but some don't relize that its killing the the other teams and in the end only chaos will rule.

So give me all good advice on building the most brutal team ever!!!

I was thinking Pact, 3 big guys get piling on as first skill, the others get mighty blow, claw. Elf will get to be ballhandler. No skaven and no goblin.

[spubbbba]

If you really want to break crp then you should use pact without the big guys, goblin or skaven. Just take a dark elf as ball ahndler, couple of re-rolls and get as many spp's on a couple of marauders as possible to turn them into clawpomber beasts.

However the trouble with this is that the team will need quite a few games before it gets decent, the same with normal chaos if you want to claw them up.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

First of all clawpomb is fine in leagues cos it takes so long to get - Plasmoid's house rules are really unnecessary for TT.
Chaos are better than Pact.
Nurgz are ultimately the best brawler at high tv but are terrible starters.

[stashman]

It's CRP+ not enything else.

And we have around 15 teams at 250-300 TV in our league. Some teams have played over 150 games IRL tabletop!!!

[Jimmy Fantastic]

"CRP+" Is just Plasmoid's house rules, nothing more than that and nothing even vaguely official.
The fact that people refer to his personal house rules as CRP+ I find quite disconcerting to be honest.
If you are playing that many games then deffo Nurgz.

[Smeborg]

"CRP+" Is just Plasmoid's house rules, nothing more than that and nothing even vaguely official.
The fact that people refer to his personal house rules as CRP+ I find quite disconcerting to be honest.

Agreed.

[Smeborg]

stashman - I suspect Chaos are more "killy" than Pact in the long run, because the Pact Big Guys need a doubles roll to take mutations (Claw), and they really need 2 doubles (because taking Block first seems advisable). Thus if ClawPoMB is your thing, I suggest you run with Chaos. In the short term, Pact are quite a bit more killy, because they start with 3 x M-Blow. Marauder killers are slow to build, and do not retain skills as well as Chaos Warriors (ST4, AV9). The time taken to build the Marauders, and their tendency to die or retire with extreme prejudice are the main frustrations of the team in a league. But they can do extremely well - a Pact team won a nearby league one year, they went undefeated in 17 games IIRC.

If you take Pact, I would suggest starting with all 3 Big Guys, they are the heart and soul of the team, really, although you can have fun with the renegades too:

3 x Big Guys
3 x Renegades
5 x Marauders
2 x RRs
Apoth

And take Leader as first Marauder skill.

An advantage of Pact is that they are really quite cheap (base TV of 122 for 14 players and 3RRs), whereas Chaos are more expensive (TV of 132 for the same build). I like to run Chaos in a league without the Minotard (base TV reduces to 123), but of course this means going without a 1-skill can-opener. I also like the reliability of the team without the 'Tard.

Chaos and Pact play very differently, so I suggest it is more a matter of taste, rather than which team might be more killy. Learning how to play 3 unreliable Big Guys is the main challenge of the Pact, whereas Chaos are inherently more reliable, with them you have to learn how to play safe in their early games.

Hope that helps.

[stashman]

First - thanks for the nice posts and that you guys to the time to write.

Second - CRP+ seems to be a good answer to our league.
We have over 200 teams with TVs from rookie teams to 300TV.

But mostly the heavy teams only play in the bigger leagues, and some skaven teams and a 300TV Delf team, we don't see humans, undead, necro etc. fight in those games.

So I would like to see a change, nerf the heavy ones skills. And we have alot of cash!!! The heavy teams have a massive 1000000 in cash, and with banking rule that will help the others Big Time to get that extra inducements - apos, wizards, 400K cards and stars.

[Aliboon]

Complicated answer, it depends

Pact can be brutal in matched TV environments, the elf and a few CPOMB killers is a very min-maxed team and should be able to take apart similar TV teams, but in a league, that sort of team won't do so well as the overdog is overdog for a reason and will win most of the time.

I wouldn't have the 3 big guys on a Pact team, too much TV and too unreliable. I'd drop the Mino personally.

Chaos will develop into the stronger team eventually - I might start with the Mino on such a team, but he isn't really needed as once you have a guard or two, all your blitzes should be ST5 anyway and the beastman or warrior doing the blocking should also have block and no loner making it less risky.

So if your league is perpetual and you want to ruin other teams with CPOMB, I'd go Chaos, or better still, Nurgle.

[plasmoid]

Hi all. Especially Jimmy.

First of all clawpomb is fine in leagues cos it takes so long to get - Plasmoid's house rules are really unnecessary for TT.

Depends a lot on the League. But for 10-games-then-do-over Leagues, certainly.

"CRP+" Is just Plasmoid's house rules, nothing more than that and nothing even vaguely official.

Just to be perfectly clear, they're considering CRP+, not NTBB.

Cheers
Martin

[dode74]

Depends a lot on the League. But for 10-games-then-do-over Leagues, certainly.

I agree with both those statements, but would add that "10 games" is not some sort of limit after which it becomes a problem (not that Martin said it was - I'm just clarifying even further!). I'm in a perpetual league which is in its 25th season (so up to 225 games) and we have no issues with it creating any sort of "dominance" at all.

[MattDakka]

I think that in the short run

Pact > Chaos > Nurgle

while in the long run

Nurgle > Chaos > Pact.