3 Khemri questions

[Smeborg]

I just thought of a way of putting my anti Khemri Ag increase stance outside Throw Ra's.

If the best you can ever attain is to a middling swordsman, then your better off not fighting at all as battlefields are filled with the corpses of those of middling ability. Better instead to know and understand your strengths building upon them and using them to over come to opposition than to waste resources to be average at best at something others do naturally.

crimsonsun - I have some sympathy for your perspective in a perpetual environment, but perhaps not for shorter formats.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

Here is the team after 7 matches (6 wins, 1 draw, TDs: 11-3, CAS: 24-14):

Tomb Guardian: Block, M-Blow (16 SPPs)
Tomb Guardian: M-Blow, Guard (16)
Tomb Guardian: M-Blow (9)
Tomb Guardian: M-Blow (9)
Blitz-Ra: +AG, +MA, Sure Hands (31)
Blitz-Ra: M-Blow (14)
Skelly: - (3)
Skelly: - (2)
Skelly: - (2)
Skelly: - (2)
Skelly: - (2)
Skelly: -
Skelly: -
Skelly: -
3 RR, 6 FF, TV 141

I will now skill up some Skellies, starting with 2 Wrestlers for defense (with no Thro-Ras, I will have at least 2 Skellies not on the LoS, the league is quite Dodgy). Our league uses chosen MVP, hence is quite SPP-efficient. TV seems efficient at the current level.

I am a bit astonished at the defensive ability of the team so far, despite only 3 Block, no Tackle and no Wrestle. I have kicked in 6 out of 7 games (I prefer to receive). To concede only 3 TDs so far is surprising. I have tended to throw the Tomb Guardians into the fray, mark up opponents, press them back, play "zonal defense" and force the opposing coach to take risks, usually resulting in a spilt ball.

The +AG, +MA Blitz-Ra is rather nice now that he has S-Hands. He can score fast when needed. The other Blitz-Ra is a retard, he refuses to get the last CAS required to get to 16 SPPs and Tackle (which I badly need on the team in this league). So far, the lack of Thro-Ras has rarely posed a problem, indeed, as said before, the greater resilience of the team with 5 x T-Skull on the pitch seems to make quite a difference (it works perhaps twice a match, often on long drives). The Skellies have got some lucky CAS in recent times.

All the best.

[crimsonsun]

Khemri are all about defence in my opinion and it sounds like you play them in the same way I do, forcing the opponent to engage and using zone control. Good stuff Keep it up

[MKL]

Since we are at it...
I have found useful to take Frenzy as second skill on a lowly skelly*. The guardians often force the game on the sidelines: the presence of a frenzy player complicates the game for the opponent, reducing his maneuver room even more (and thus creating more chance for errors).

*surfing can be risky business, sometimes we can refrain from gambling a preciouos Blitz/Thro-Ra where it can be surfed himself. But a Skelly can be gambled to take out a positional, and the opponent knows it.

[crimsonsun]

Since we are at it...
I have found useful to take Frenzy as second skill on a lowly skelly*. The guardians often force the game on the sidelines: the presence of a frenzy player complicates the game for the opponent, reducing his maneuver room even more (and thus creating more chance for errors).

*surfing can be risky business, sometimes we can refrain from gambling a preciouos Blitz/Thro-Ra where it can be surfed himself. But a Skelly can be gambled to take out a positional, and the opponent knows it.

Agreed though I only give a player frenzy if its got strength 4+ but that's a personal taste thing, I always however try to maintain a Frenzy player in a Khemri team as soon as the chance to develop one arrives. My OCC team has a Str4 superstar Blitz Ra for that purpose with mb, frenzy, sf, Juggernaut (which with SF is why I like strength access on the player). However regardless of the chosen implementation Frenzy is a critical tool for pitch control especially when used on conjunction with TG's with SF, Guard and Grab..

[Smeborg]

I hadn't thought of Frenzy. I have managed a good few surfs, though. 20% of the CAS tally (5/24) are from surfs and self-inflicted injuries by my opponents.

On defense, Khemri seem to pose a nice set of problems for the opponent. Often he has to choose between competing strings of moderate risk rolls (with say 1/6 or 1/9 chances of failure for each roll). When the team RR is blown early in the sequence, things tend to get nasty for him. Not since playing Nurgle extensively have I seen opponents actually go relentlessly backwards in the face of the Khemri press. The main point of difference with the Khemri defense is 4xST5 players. When they are launched into the fray to mark up opponents, the opponent has to either pretend they are not there or expend too much resource to block them away.

Until I played Khemri seriously, I had not realised the psychological pressure that the Khemri defense can cause. Technical pressure is great too, a Khemri opponent often needs to play with great accuracy on the first 1 or 2 turns of offense, otherwise he can be in big trouble. Since this technical pressure is greater than with many other teams, it can catch opponents unawares. I think this may be a reason why I have been winning so many games when kicking.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

Khemri are all about defence in my opinion and it sounds like you play them in the same way I do, forcing the opponent to engage and using zone control. Good stuff Keep it up

crimsonsun - yes, I think we are very much on the same wavelength. Note, however, that when I use the term "zonal defense", I am using it in the same way as it is used in sports such as hockey (and I think soccer). This is when you abandon man-to-man marking and allocate each player a "zone" to defend. I am finding this concept quite important since I am playing without Thro-Ras, thus the aggregate MA of the team is 53 (one higher than Dwarfs). In reality the typical position might be some players (especially TGs) engaged, some players forming a line with lots of TZs (somewhere between a single and double line) and the remaining players (say 2 or 3, sometimes only 1) playing "zonal defense" at the back, in anticipation of a "minority breakthrough" (uncaged ball) by the opponent (or a spilt ball) in my backfield. Often these "zonal defenders" are rookie Skellies, but they seem to do the job. Another reason why I want Wrestle (followed by Tackle) on a couple of them.

The concept of "zonal defense" also helps me when the board is very wild, with players scattered all over it, especially if the opponent is an AG team. Much better to spread the Khemri players well than to bunch them or form then in lines that can be easily bypassed (something I learned first with Nurgle). The aim is to force the opponent into an indefensible position (or to make him take silly risks).

Hope that makes sense.

[crimsonsun]

Khemri are all about defence in my opinion and it sounds like you play them in the same way I do, forcing the opponent to engage and using zone control. Good stuff Keep it up

crimsonsun - yes, I think we are very much on the same wavelength. Note, however, that when I use the term "zonal defense", I am using it in the same way as it is used in sports such as hockey (and I think soccer). This is when you abandon man-to-man marking and allocate each player a "zone" to defend. I am finding this concept quite important since I am playing without Thro-Ras, thus the aggregate MA of the team is 53 (one higher than Dwarfs). In reality the typical position might be some players (especially TGs) engaged, some players forming a line with lots of TZs (somewhere between a single and double line) and the remaining players (say 2 or 3, sometimes only 1) playing "zonal defense" at the back, in anticipation of a "minority breakthrough" (uncaged ball) by the opponent (or a spilt ball) in my backfield. Often these "zonal defenders" are rookie Skellies, but they seem to do the job. Another reason why I want Wrestle (followed by Tackle) on a couple of them.

The concept of "zonal defense" also helps me when the board is very wild, with players scattered all over it, especially if the opponent is an AG team. Much better to spread the Khemri players well than to bunch them or form then in lines that can be easily bypassed (something I learned first with Nurgle). The aim is to force the opponent into an indefensible position (or to make him take silly risks).

Hope that makes sense.

Very much on the same wave length, if you have the time you should watch a replay or two of mine as I believe I'm very strong at this kind of play and as a result I have one of the best defences of any teams in the Leagues I play in. A season in which I'm winning more games than losing will see me concede only around 6 touch down over 9 games with 2-3 of those being in the game that season nuffle takes a dump on the squad (there's always 1 game where Khemri Ag is insurmountable) while a bad or negative season will still only see 10 -11 touch downs conceded. I just got relegated for tier2 with a season where I let in 11, of which 3 were in one game against wood elves (handling, perfect fireball and Elves passing 2+'s is game over)..

Sadly I find Khemri offence can become unstuck easily if you have weak/rookie Guardians in that environment because you lack the security brought by guard and my oldest Guardian has been with the team for only 30 out of 80 games so you can guess at how many I've gone though, however once you get them all guard again then its far more stable and my winning % goes back into the positive. :p

[babass]

I like Sinnebad (?) hes cheap has block and stab, also secret weapon but as I want an 8 turn grind that's not much of an issue..

+1

[Digger Goreman]

Today's game reinforced my belief in MiB first!

In a recovery game for the Professor and I, his all human linemen + Griff played my (- one TG and one BR, my only guards) Khemri....

Highlights:
Ag3 leader scores twice, but gets stunned close to his possible third td
TG with MiB does FOUR casualties and rises to 15spp
TG with no skills scores one cas and gains MiB
TG with MiB blitzes down a TZ opponent, scoops the ball, and gfi's: plus gets MVP and gains guard

Griff Oberwald scores the first, and only TD for the Humans, then falls on a gfi double skulls during a Blitz result! The fifth skeleton, with 3 assists, crushed pretty boy's cheesy skull with a pile-driver maneuver that earned a red card upon finding Griff's corpse in several improbable complimentary angles....

Yes, Undead fans, G.O. is DOA!!!!!

It's been a red entrail day for sure

The Sand Vipers
5x Skeletons w/no spps
TR 0 spp
TR 30 spp +Ag, leader
BR 25 spp guard, MiB
BR 02 spp
TG 15 spp MiB
TG 06 spp MiB
TG 19 spp MiB, guard
TG 19 spp MiB, guard
2x Rerolls, 10ff, 100k treasury

[Digger Goreman]

My 111 TV, 11 man Khemri side vs Dr Lucky's 990 TV starting Chaos (3 Warriors + 8 Beastmen)

Chaos induced a reroll....

Playing in the snow....

I had a dodge Thrower, Block Guardian, and MiB Blitzer....

After a quick snap, killed skeleton and, in spite of a dropped pass, my thrower couldn't nab the ball in one tackle zone.... A flurry of ones and twos later and the Doc had a turn 4 score.... Son of a gun only missed one gfi the whole game.... I only made one, but after too many survived blitzes, it was the turn 8 equalizer that broke the streak....

The second half my dice normalized and I played good enough ball control that I only had to survive one blitz and DODGE saved the day!

Turn 16 score and it was effectively over....

Besides dodge on the TR, block on the Guardian was indispensable.... Unfortunately, MiB did little this game....

Had enough cash to buy three skellies.... Second thrower upgraded to leader.... MVP to the block Guardian, who stands one point from a second skill....

5 in a row, knock on bone....

[babass]

I won my league season with my Khemri
2 reroll + leader seems perfect for this roster:
I played all playoff with inducement : at least sinnebad. Some with the wizard. And the finale even with both.

My best player of this season was a skelet with wrestle (and guard)
Great skill for them!
Kick is clearly a musthave as well.

[Digger Goreman]

I won my league season with my Khemri
2 reroll + leader seems perfect for this roster:
I played all playoff with inducement : at least sinnebad. Some with the wizard. And the finale even with both.

My best player of this season was a skelet with wrestle (and guard)
Great skill for them!
Kick is clearly a musthave as well.

Nice, congrats!

If you don't mind me asking, what was the league composition and how many games were played? Did you find Khemri fast or slow to start, and how did you use kick to advantage...?

[babass]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the league composition and how many games were played?

here full results of the league:
http://www.bbarena.net/league.php?id=mbbl02
2 poul of 6 teams:
- khemris, skaven, orcs, nurgle, dwarves, humen, orcs
- dark elves, slaanns, undead, norse, chaos, chaos
Then playoff for everyone.
i was off for the barrage (as first of my poul)
then quarter against : chaos
semi against : slanns
final against Undead (draw 1st game, then victory without overtime in the 2nd game)

Did you find Khemri fast or slow to start,

slow
so hard to skill them, as no MB as starting skill, only 2 block, no passing, max 2 TD/games, etc...

i have my 2nd skilled guardian only for the last game

and how did you use kick to advantage...?

i had kick for the playoffs.
it do help a lot.
long kick against slow team
quick kick against agile team (like the slanns)

[Smeborg]

ALAS THE EXPERIMENT HAS ENDED! And in fine Blood Bowl style, too. My ahem "Blitz-Ra" (7338 Block, Regen, Sure Hands, 39 SPPs) died in his 9th game. 12 for armour, 12 for injury, 6 to die, 3 for Regen. And of course it was my own fault...

Playing against the no. 2 side in the league (Norse), I got to receive, but my opponent kicked to the far corner and got a Riot. This left 6 turns to get the ball from end to end, a struggle even with a movement 7 ball carrier. On turn 6 I had to make a break for it, made the first naked go-for-it to get the "Blitz-Ra" to safety, then took the dubious decision to GFI a second time (it would have put him within scoring distance). It failed, of course, my opponent got the ball and moved it upfield. On turn 8 I tried to blitz a player standing next to the ball and within scoring distance, to give myself a longshot chance of scoring (a blunder). Of course the naked GFI failed, gifting my opponent a TD (I should have just marked the ball for a draw).

In the second half, I got a shot at the ball, it failed, my opponent was forced to score early, leaving me 6 turns to score twice. With Khemri. Again I gallantly went for it, tried to score in 3, but it involved exposing my "Blitz-Ra" to possible attack. He was duly sacked and erm killed. Nevertheless I still scored in 4, leaving 2 turns to try and get the ball off my opponent and score. Now up on numbers, I had a good go at it, sacked the ball-carrier on turn 16, but failed the first GFI in the scoring attempt (I would still have needed another 3 GFIs, a pick-up and a hand-off), but at least it was a chance. So I lost 1-2, but it was a fine game despite the blunders.

Game 10 against 'Zons saw a traditional form of draw, the 'Zons received, I sacked the AG4 ball-carrier, but alas could not prevent a B/S play by the same AG4 player passing to another AG4 player (with Blodge), whom I could not bring down. In the second half the Khemri reduced the 'Zons to 2 players on the pitch, but ran out of time to score more than once.

I remain rather impressed with the Khemri defense, I think they have popped the ball loose at least once in each match, often more than once.

All the best.