3 Khemri questions

[Smeborg]

Here is the team after just 10 games (7 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss), chosen MVPs:

Tomb Guardian: Block, M-Blow (20 SPPs)
Tomb Guardian: M-Blow, Guard (18)
Tomb Guardian: M-Blow, Guard (16)
Tomb Guardian: M-Blow (15)
Blitz-Ra: M-Blow, Tackle (21)
Blitz-Ra: - (0)
Thro-Ra: - (3)
Skelly: Wrestle, Tackle (16)
Skelly: - (3)
Skelly: - (2)
Skelly: - (2)
Skelly: - (2)
Skelly: - (0)
Skelly: - (0)
3RR, 6FF, 80,000, TV:142

I will wait to get a bit more money before I buy the second Thro-Ra. It took a few minutes to get used to an AG2 ball carrier again, I forgot that they always drop the ball at the first attempt, once I had dropped it I reverted to true Khemri style of play (though the lapse nearly saw me turned over!). The policy of M-Blow first on the Tomb Guardians seems to be paying off, there is lots of AV7 in the league, the last game against 'Zons saw me get 7 CAS (M-Blow involved in most of them), and the team CAS count is now 38-20 after 10 games, starting to be respectable. I couldn't resist giving another MVP to the captain of the Skellies for Wrestle+Tackle (he had just got his 3rd CAS, not bad for a little weed). The M-Blow+Tackle Blitz-Ra continues to disappoint.

Hope you are enjoying following the fortunes of the Short Range Desert Group. All the best.

[MattDakka]

The M-Blow+Tackle Blitz-Ra continues to disappoint.

He needs Piling On to really shine.

[babass]

GUARD on each GUY first !

[Smeborg]

The M-Blow+Tackle Blitz-Ra continues to disappoint.

He needs Piling On to really shine.

I agree, but almost every team I face has Blodge players, thus I gave him Tackle first. At the rate he is going he will take a long time to get to 31 SPPs.

[Smeborg]

GUARD on each GUY first !

I agree in theory, but not in practice. This is an old debate for Khemri. In my league there are lots of AV7 teams (Skaven, Norse, 'Zon etc.) and plenty of other teams with AV7 players. This is an incentive to take M-Blow first (Khemri like to win on numbers as well as on ST+position). In addition, we use chosen MVP. With just 1 CAS, a Tomb Guardian can be given an MVP for his first skill-up. If he takes M-Blow, he only needs 2 more CAS (easy to get with M-Blow) and a second MVP to get to 16 SPPs and Guard.

Hope that explains why I did it.

[huff]

One thing that should be mentioned regarding TGs skill pick, is getting that first Guard piece will make it easier to get all 3D Blocks on LoS.

So I would suggest giving the first one Guard at least, and the Mighty Blow for the rest.

I should disclose that Khemri are the one team I have never played with, and although this thread makes me want to play with them, I think I refuse to because of decay along with some other glowing weaknesses on the team composition (Blitz-Ras price, Thro-Ra w/no Thick Skull) but mainly the Decay. I like the premise of the team, low AG strength guys, but the execution is something to be desired.

The skill pick of 1 Guard before Mighty Blow guys just comes from playing the game, and knowing how important those 3D blocks off to start the drive.

What pick would you guys go for 31 (or 3rd regular I should say)? mine as well start that off because I can see Mr. Smeeborg asking it after a couple of games. There are a couple fine options.

[Smeborg]

huff - I have 2 Guard after 10 games, and the 3rd Guard (or 2nd Block) should follow shortly, as the 4th Tomb Guardian is on 15 SPPs and has M-Blow. I think the choice of M-Blow first is vindicated in my environment (short league, chosen MVP).

I believe the orthodox pick as 3rd normal skill is Stand Firm. It maximises the annoyance value of ST5 + Guard. B-Tackle, Grab and Jugs would be the main skill choices thereafter.

All the best.

[MattDakka]

I should disclose that Khemri are the one team I have never played with, and although this thread makes me want to play with them, I think I refuse to because of decay along with some other glowing weaknesses on the team composition (Blitz-Ras price, Thro-Ra w/no Thick Skull) but mainly the Decay. I like the premise of the team, low AG strength guys, but the execution is something to be desired.

Decay is not such a big issue. It doesn't affect the Regeneration rate, just makes not-regenerated injuries more serious, so no difference with a Mummy during a match, of course Decay is annoying if you play to skill-build your Guardians.
In 71 matches in Box I lost 8 Guardians, you can expect to lose a Guardian every 8-9 matches in a very bash-oriented division like Box.
Even with this Guardians' loss rate the team performs well, over 62 % win rate.
Yes, Blitz-Ras and Thro-Ras should have Thick Skull but it's still a playable team.

What pick would you guys go for 31 (or 3rd regular I should say)? mine as well start that off because I can see Mr. Smeeborg asking it after a couple of games. There are a couple fine options.

I generally like Mighty Blow, Guard, Break Tackle, Stand Firm, Grab in this order.
Stand Firm is a valid alternative to Break Tackle as 3rd regular skill but I noticed that the ability of reliably dodging away with a Guardian is very useful during defence and offence.
A Guardian can easily be stranded from action when marked by a fodder player or a Stand Firm one like Flesh Golems, moreover Break Tackle is a threat for half-cages on the side lines, where Khemri's opponents will go most of times since going through the middle of the pitch is way harder.

[Smeborg]

It's rare to see a Tomb Guardian with more than 3 or 4 skills - the effect of Decay, I believe.

Decay does become a serious consideration in practical play. For example, against low ST opposition, I quite like to deploy 2 TGs on the defensive LoS. However, this exposes them to Decay, so I know I can't do it often.

All the best,

[MattDakka]

It's rare to see a Tomb Guardian with more than 3 or 4 skills - the effect of Decay, I believe.

Decay does become a serious consideration in practical play. For example, against low ST opposition, I quite like to deploy 2 TGs on the defensive LoS. However, this exposes them to Decay, so I know I can't do it often.

All the best,

Skeletons are made for defensive LoS, but vs agile teams you can place them on LoS, it's unlikely they will be injured.
The problem of deploying TGs on Los is they could be stranded and kept busy by fodder linemen while the rest of the opponent team moves on the side lines, so in most situations I don't deploy TGs on LoS.

[mrb3]

In our league, we've got a Khemri team who lost it's first Tomb Guardian after 16 games. The team also does well averaging 2.75 "casualties for" and a mere 1.38 "casualties against" per game. It also has a 50% win percentage (though the coach is still learning how to handle the team).

The main reason for such low "cas against" number is that all Tomb Guardians invariably get Guard as first skill. Sure, they aren't killers but it's very hard and taxing to get two dice blocks on them... As a result, they rarely hit the ground (around 4 - 5 times a game at most... and very often even less than that).

Not saying the Mighty Blowers are wrong, but a good defensive measure against Decay seems to be Guard all the way as you minimise the number of times they go down, making it easier for the Tomb Guardians to live to a second skill !

[MattDakka]

In our league, we've got a Khemri team who lost it's first Tomb Guardian after 16 games. The team also does well averaging 2.75 "casualties for" and a mere 1.38 "casualties against" per game. It also has a 50% win percentage (though the coach is still learning how to handle the team).

The main reason for such low "cas against" number is that all Tomb Guardians invariably get Guard as first skill. Sure, they aren't killers but it's very hard and taxing to get two dice blocks on them... As a result, they rarely hit the ground (around 4 - 5 times a game at most... and very often even less than that).

Not saying the Mighty Blowers are wrong, but a good defensive measure against Decay seems to be Guard all the way as you minimise the number of times they go down, making it easier for the Tomb Guardians to live to a second skill !

At low TV it's unlikely that TGs get hurt, but at mid-high TV MB, PO, and Claw are more common.
Probably your league has few bash teams, or they are not developed yet.
I play Khemri in the bashiest division on FUMBBL.

[Digger Goreman]

Resurrecting the thread to seek some TT team advice (perpetual league), random MVPs

The Sand Vipers haven't lost a game yet (11 played) and consists of

5x skeletons with ZERO spp (unbelievable)
TR 0 spp
TR 38 spp +Ag, Leader, regular skill pending)
BR 28 spp guard, MiB
BR 02 spp
TG 15 spp MiB
TG 06 spp MiB
TG 19 spp MiB, guard
TG 19 spp MiB, guard

2 rerolls
FF 10
Treasury 160k

Two questions: is there anything better than block for the TR and, should I be looking to expand the team and perhaps look at a more aggressive fouling option?

Anything else constructive?

Yeah, that's three questions.... It does honor the thread title....

[crimsonsun]

A case could be made for Kick off return but I'd choose block before that personally. I don't go above 13 until I get all thirteen Levelled at least once, even in league environments I feel to over come the teams natural handicap you need to be looking to fully optimise your TV (though not to the same extent as you would in Match making).

Fouling is something I always bring with Khemri when I've got the development on the skeletons but its as much for the threat of a foul as actually carrying them out, I find I tend to only foul on defensive drives as losing the player during offence is more hassle than its worth and even then I only make about 3 fouls during the 8 turns generally because I won't forgo my positioning to make the foul and I also use Dirty players (that then get Wrestle and Fend if development allows) as bait for opposing killers and to shield my more important Tomb guardians, Blitz Ra's and Throw Ra's. On the other hand many coaches swear by fouling heavily with Khemri and It does lead to good results though it can also destroy your game plan and chances of winning because its so luck dependant.

Looking at your team you've done really well to get all that spp on those Guardians which is something I find troublesome some times and unlike Matt says above I find I will often lose 2-3 in my first ten games due to fluke opposing injuries, but once they all get Guard I find them to stick around (though I still loose them but in batches I'll go about 25games without losing any then I'll lose 2-3 in on or two games, this is consistent as I have 3 Khemri teams with more than 100 games each in different leagues with different metas and they all have the same cycle of players). Though while you've got that nice development on your guardians you have a naked throw Ra and Blitz Ra which is because I'm assuming your starting build was the 1,1 plus 4 TG, 5 Skeletons and then 2 Rerolls and because of the slow nature in which blitz Ra's develop unless you focus upon them is the reason I start without Throw Ra's (They are greedy spp hogs).

Anyway I hope my answers are helpful though I'm sure you'll get differing advice here as well.

[Digger Goreman]

It is thought invoking.... The Professor played an even game at 136tv with a chaos pact team of developed marauders and an ogre.... Lots of naked claw, one with MiB.... I received and k.o'd his ogre for more than a half, eliminating that claw immediately.... The rest of the game was cast and mouse, both of us limiting the other to little more than blitzes.... I received a high compliment from the professor when he leaned over to Dr Lucky and confided that he had tried to split my guards, but I was too smart to take the bait....

He had a kicker and that was a minor pain.... 51 is only 13 points away... maybe KOR then?