How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

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How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by Shteve0 »

stashman wrote:Plasmoids CRP+ is the key!!!!
This is truly first class trolling

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by besters »

dode74 wrote:Something like "if the PO reroll is a double the player considered to have carried out an illegal procedure and a turnover is awarded" would add a downside to it, and could also help limit the number of POs used per turn.
I would add "and the player is sent off" to this, still effective but carrying the risk of a foul.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by dode74 »

besters wrote:
dode74 wrote:Something like "if the PO reroll is a double the player considered to have carried out an illegal procedure and a turnover is awarded" would add a downside to it, and could also help limit the number of POs used per turn.
I would add "and the player is sent off" to this, still effective but carrying the risk of a foul.
Nah. Make it too bad and you risk nobody taking it at all. The risk of a turnover is enough imo.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by besters »

dode74 wrote:
besters wrote:
dode74 wrote:Something like "if the PO reroll is a double the player considered to have carried out an illegal procedure and a turnover is awarded" would add a downside to it, and could also help limit the number of POs used per turn.
I would add "and the player is sent off" to this, still effective but carrying the risk of a foul.
Nah. Make it too bad and you risk nobody taking it at all. The risk of a turnover is enough imo.
I wouldn't have a problem with that, so we can agree to disagree.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by mattgslater »

I think it should be injury only, to minimize derping out then hiding on the ground.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by stashman »

Shteve0 wrote:
stashman wrote:Plasmoids CRP+ is the key!!!!
This is truly first class trolling
What???

We have changed to it and we are happy and satisfied with the CRP+ rules.

Fixing claw, piling on, sneaky git, fouling, banking and right stuff.

Have you played with crp+ rules??? Why is so many players negative to the crp+???

What if the official rules have changed to crp+, would you stop playing blood bowl???

Threads after threads on forums is about "fix clawplomb"

And as some say on FUMBBL: dont wanna play heavy clawplomb, but still whine over crp+

Well. I guess I dont get it...

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by mattgslater »

My experience with CRP+ is that it's okay (some good ideas, at least, not keen on Bank and the Right Stuff rules especially), but NTBB really turns a lot of coaches off and it's easy to equate them.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by harvestmouse »

stashman wrote:
Shteve0 wrote:
stashman wrote:Plasmoids CRP+ is the key!!!!
This is truly first class trolling
What???

We have changed to it and we are happy and satisfied with the CRP+ rules.

Fixing claw, piling on, sneaky git, fouling, banking and right stuff.

Have you played with crp+ rules??? Why is so many players negative to the crp+???

What if the official rules have changed to crp+, would you stop playing blood bowl???

Threads after threads on forums is about "fix clawplomb"

And as some say on FUMBBL: dont wanna play heavy clawplomb, but still whine over crp+

Well. I guess I dont get it...
I don't want to play vs heavy CPOMB and I don't think CRP+ is the answer. Your argument suggests only Plasmoid has the answers. Which is rather tunnel vision. I think on the whole that CRP+ would make the ruleset better, but I think you could look at each individual issue and come up with a better or equally as good fix.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by El_Jairo »

I feel? Piling on is the most broken part. Because coaches are picking it over block. So either make it less effective or introduce a bigger risk, since fouling is not a real deterrent ATM.

How about if you use PO you roll armor on the PO player as well. And on a double roll on injury using PO you get auto stunned as well.
Additionally I would boost fouling by a +1 to the armor roll while fouling.

I would like to have the value of a player change when he gets an injury. Not the full equivalent discount but half the value of a stat increase.
Niggling would deduct 10k for instance.

I do like the idea of some sort of increasing vulnerability of aging players but my guess is that legendary players will get enough attention as it is. Especially if fouling is boosted, together with sneaky git moving your cought player to the KO box and allow him to get out on a 4+.

I think that Agility teams should be able to deal some damage but at the cost of a skill and it will be far inferior to POMB as you still have to risk TO and being expelled.

I do like to see some dedicated fouling players again in Blood Bowl.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by harvestmouse »

I think the problem with +1 fouls on players that have Piled On, is it's a bit messy. Especially on the TT. "Did he Pile On last turn?" "How do I know, I have 7 PO players!" I think there are better cleaner answers.

A deduction in value, I think works sometimes, but not others. AG on a lot of players is nearly worthless and ST isn't worth that much on a DP Zombie either. AV and MA I think in all situations do have a worth though. So I think these 2 across the board you could decrease a players worth if they got injured. AG/ST are very difficult as they're more valuable to some players and less valuable to others. I do agree though that a decrease in value would hopefully see less cutting, which is done too much. However even new niggle, which I think is pretty good pretty much results in mandatory cutting.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by Vanguard »

One thought that occurred to me would be to make PO subject to a straight ST roll in order to succeed. So:
  • Player decides to use Piling On
  • Player is placed prone
  • Player makes straight ST roll
  • If successful, re-roll armour/injury as appropriate
What I like about this is that it shifts the risk/reward balance by making the re-roll no longer guaranteed. For big guys, where PO is a fairly essential development option, it becomes a 2+ which is still pretty reliable. However, it makes adding PO to ST3 Blitzers much less attractive. It also fits the fluff, where ST loosely represents player size and PO would be more effective for bigger (higher ST) players.
On the downside, although it follows the same principles as an AG roll, it would be the only example of it in the game.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by plasmoid »

Hi all,
Shteve0 said:
This is truly first class trolling
Actually, between the two of you, only one posted a comment relevant to the actual discussion.
I have no idea why you think Stashman is the one trolling.

Mattgslater said:
I think it should be injury only, to minimize derping out then hiding on the ground.
I couldn't agree more.
It also Means that PO-players how to be more careful when they follow up, because they aren't guaranteed to go down.
That way you could set up PO traps just like you can currently set up frenzy traps.

Harvestmouse said:
I don't want to play vs heavy CPOMB and I don't think CRP+ is the answer. Your argument suggests only Plasmoid has the answers. Which is rather tunnel vision. I think on the whole that CRP+ would make the ruleset better, but I think you could look at each individual issue and come up with a better or equally as good fix.
I'm certainly glad to hear that you think that CRP+ would improve the game.
I think that the main problem with coming up with a better fix for each individual issue is demonstrated rather spectacularly by this thread: Everybody thinks they have a better fix for everything. And nobody agrees on anything.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by Smeborg »

Hi Martin - I suggest that there are other underlying problems with rules reform.

One is a general tendency to try to solve problems by adding more rules, thus making the game more complicated (and less appealing to newcomers). Not good for the game IMO.

Another is trying to solve perceived racial "balance" problems by "re-balancing". Forgive me, but I see this as a never-ending game of "there was an old woman who swallowed a fly..." It can never succeed.

Another is that the online versions of the game create an inherent inertia against rules reform.

I would prefer to see a reform effort that starts with the aim of simplifying both the rules and the way they are written. But as I have neither the time nor the inclination to lead such an effort, no doubt it will not happen. I would also like to see new races slowly introduced, as this seems to have been good for growth of the hobby in the past.

Although the hobby currently lacks the structure (e.g. BBRC + autocratic head) to reform the rules, I suggest it also lacks the "political" will to effect change. For example, the NAF could take the lead, but seem to shy away from doing so when they have the opportunity.

All the best.

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Re: How to fix claws, MiB, PO within the rules:

Post by plasmoid »

Hi Smeborg,
you make perfect sense.
I neither did nor do expect CRP+ to become the official BB rules.
I like them, but I guess that is beside the point.

What I personally see is that if BB2 doesn't just fall flat - and it could - then Cyanide has an esports'ey interest in balance which is very different to the traditionalist stance on balance. I don't think they'll sell a lot of DLC teams, if said team 'sucks'.
We'll know soon enough if change is coming.
But if it does, then I hope that the NAF will Work with it than Work against it.

Cheers
Martin

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Post by Shteve0 »

Gents - apologies in advance if I sound a little exasperated. My question to you: have you read the NAF charter? Which bit of it even remotely suggests we have the authority/opportunity/responsibility to make changes to the game rules?

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