Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

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What would you do?

Wait for the Ogre rebuy
8
53%
Go all in on Catchers
2
13%
Just buy one catcher to reduce Loner now
5
33%
Whatever solution you came up with (post below)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 15

Aliboon
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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by Aliboon »

I take it you can only take 1 Merc blitzer? If so I'd take him (you need as much block as possible) and Helmut. 230k irrc. Helmut will make short work of any skink he catches.

Otherwise a Merc tackle or guard blitzer and a BBabe.

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El_Jairo
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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

Aliboon wrote:I take it you can only take 1 Merc blitzer? If so I'd take him (you need as much block as possible) and Helmut. 230k irrc. Helmut will make short work of any skink he catches.

Otherwise a Merc tackle or guard blitzer and a BBabe.
Sadly Mercenaries are quite highly priced: you pay them the regular fee+ 30k and 50k for a skill. So the merc blitzer with skill costs 170k, which leaves 70k for the Bloodwiser Babe.

Helmut alone is 110k but he only plays one drive, so he doesn't really help with the numbers, unless he gets close to a skink. You can combine him with a bribe, to field him two drives.
But given the previous experience with Helmut and the fact that I'm mainly out-strengthened: 2x ST 5 4x ST 4 and 5x ST2. I'm concerned that Helmut will be rather easily dispatched off when someone get's a blitz of on him.

I rather have the luxury of a 12th man who isn't gone after a couple of turns or after the first drive.

Maybe I'm too biased by my previous experience. My tactic now is to limit his strength advantage so he will need to do more 1 die blocks and will get bitten by the lack of Block and TRR.

I'll look at the Mayhem cards, maybe Dirty, to have like a mini-wizard effect. Babes are only situational effective... but yeah the numbers...

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by rolo »

if you can cut some costs a little bit, maybe by firing coaches or cheerleaders, or not taking a journeyman, Mighty Zug costs 260k and Zara costs 270. Zara in particular is surprisingly effective against Lizards; with Block and Dodge she can hopefully stay on her feet, Dauntless helps against ST5 opponents, and skinks are terrified of Stab.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by mawph »

El_Jairo wrote:Now I'm left with the feeling of making the wrong choices for my inducements. This time I'll have 240k inducements.
He will have 11 players:
5 Skinks: 1x Rookie, 2x Sure Feet and 2x Side-Step
6 Sauri: 2x Rookie (1 MNG), Block, Dodge, MB and ST5!
Rookie Kroxi.
Maybe this game we don't lose any more players and now I feel bad for letting that -AG lino go. I won't do it again in such a short term league (12-14 games).
I probably could have jumped in earlier, but opinion was generally with cutting the -AG lino. For me, I wouldn't want to be dodging with an AG3 human lineman at the best of times (only when necessary) so would have kept him. You're not an elf, so you're not going to be systematically dodging a lineman away from contact unless its a specific reason. (Edit: Similar with ball handling - there are plenty of better options in the team for picking up/catching the ball, so AG2 should be a "suck it up" thing until you are flush with cash)

WIth this game, its Lizards, you need to embrace the Strength disparity and hope that the lack of block slows him down. Wizard sounds good, save for when you see a shot at the ball, as those high strength pieces can be pinned down (no dodging for them) and a spilt ball with a TZ on it is a right pain for Lizards. His choices of MB and Dodge are bonuses for you. Whether long or short league, after playing a bit with Lizards, I can confirm that its very worthwhile passing up doubles for the Saurus (doubles are lovely for Krox and Skinks), block is such a lovely skill. MB/Tackle are great as second skills (and make for a considerable step up in performance) but don't decrease the risk of turnovers, so wizard the ball, mark the ST pieces and see how he reacts to the pressure.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

TLDR:
What are the best new skills for AV7 heavy league? Main competition are: Lizardmen, Amazons, Goblins and Necromantic. We have two new players coaching Orcs and Skaven.

Double skill on Tackle Blitzer (18spp). Would you pick Diving Tackle, Dodge, Side Step or just go with MB and hope to make it to 31 spp and Piling on?

Normal skill on ST4 Blitzer (16spp). Guard, MB or Tackle? I would pick guard as with ST4 he is not so easily blocked.

With 90k in treasure what to buy?
New thrower or catcher or save up for Ogre?
I would like to pick Thrower as my main one is MNG.
mawph wrote: WIth this game, its Lizards, you need to embrace the Strength disparity and hope that the lack of block slows him down. Wizard sounds good, save for when you see a shot at the ball, as those high strength pieces can be pinned down (no dodging for them) and a spilt ball with a TZ on it is a right pain for Lizards. His choices of MB and Dodge are bonuses for you. Whether long or short league, after playing a bit with Lizards, I can confirm that its very worthwhile passing up doubles for the Saurus (doubles are lovely for Krox and Skinks), block is such a lovely skill. MB/Tackle are great as second skills (and make for a considerable step up in performance) but don't decrease the risk of turnovers, so wizard the ball, mark the ST pieces and see how he reacts to the pressure.
Many thanks for replying and I think you are right about skipping doubles on sauri. My opponent picked MB as an experiment to see if he will skill up sooner than a block variant. One dodge is maybe not a bad thing if you can get to BT soon enough.

Now I did a little miscalculation and only had 220k inducement, which was still sufficient for Merc. Biitzer with guard and a dirty trick card (stolen playbook, which did made a difference in the end).
And I really could use the guard to have a shot at knocking over his LoS because he put ST5 Saurus, Kroxi and block Saurus on the line. If I didn't try to knock them over, he could simple position his kroxi to wherever I moved too as he was the middle one.

Sadly my opponent had almost all perfect rolls in the first half: he decided to kick and rolled Pitch Invasion (with FAME +1 for him) This resulted in 4 stuns vs none for me. Meaning I had to defend the ball with 4 players less and I did fail my pick-up attempt of course. Needless to say I got 0-1 behind.
Next Kick-off, that's right, he rolled Blitz. Now I had my full team but I was struggling to get the ball forward and safe. For which I needed to pass it to my catcher but I failed the dodge to put a blitzer behind him.
Indeed this resulted in 0-2. I still had about 2 turn to score but didn't have any TRR left and tried to dodge too much to scree, my catcher which had broken through.

Second half he finally started to fail rolls and he got confused by my stolen playbook, which I put on my ST4 blitzer next to his skink. He missed the fact that I had moved in the Guard merc and that he was blocking vs my ST4 => Turn-over and CAS for him :). Next turn he missed that I had put my Tackler next to the BC skink => TO and my ST4 shadowed and catched the lose ball => TD and skill for him!

I still failed to make the last turn equalizer but rolled 50k winnings.

I rolled double on my tackle bitzer and now I don't know what to pick: Diving Tackle seems nice (perfect man-marker for ghouls and the likes) but MB still appeal with all those AV7 in our league and my next game is vs Skaven.

MY ST4 will take guard because I think that is best for the team.

My thrower got MNG so I'm thinking about buying a new one, to save TRR's.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by rolo »

Dodge is the boring, but effective, choice for doubles on a human blitzer.

Mighty Blow is quite good against AV7 players (and everyone else!). I'd definitely consider taking MB on your ST4 Blitzer monster. He's your superstar and you probably blitz with him every turn anyway.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by mattgslater »

As much MB/Tackle as you can get your hands on. That's what the AV7 game is about. Guard is good, but getting menz out is better.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

mattgslater wrote:As much MB/Tackle as you can get your hands on. That's what the AV7 game is about. Guard is good, but getting menz out is better.
Thanx Matt, I have done some estimate math and you are right MB has a bigger impact than guard would have on the numbers game.
My next games are Skaven (easy since battered and rookie coach), Necro (potential dangerous because of Block MB and PO wolf), Amazons (typical with Blodgers and Guard, so MB should tip the scales) and then we'll see what state our team is in.

I was thinking if I would prefer to stand next to a dodge AV7 target and hope to stop it with DT. Sure it would be good if I can't blitz my target because I need to get past a screen but with MB you guarantee less screening and more removal for those troublesome Boldge AV7 targets, which is the permanent way to remove the scoring potential.
DT and guard only increase the chance of turn-over for your opponent and decreases your turnover chance on blocks.

When you reduce opposing numbers your are creating the same benefit as guard would do but on a different level. With guard you get a blocking advantage now but with MB you create potential blocking and positioning advantage.
Reducing the opponent's options on the pitch is always good, that's why one extra stun is potentially better: if you don't have a spare player for the action, it is failed by default.

So currently I set my hope on 2x MB and picking up a second thrower to be develop as passing option, if he is needed to be fielded anyway as I'm quite happy with MA 7 Block, Sure Hands, Pass BC for now.

So my next upgrade on a rookie blitzer should be Tackle again, to have double for that and the last will become guard, just to support all that Tackle and MB.

For now I will try to develop my Catcher as utility with Block, Side-Step (and if ever possible Sure Hands).
If I ever get a next one, I would go Wrestle, Strip Ball.

When I have 2x MB on my team I might just not need the Ogre at all and try to develop as much speed in my team as well with extra catchers.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by babass »

keep your money to buy a blitzer next game instead of a catcher this game :)
and take a journeymen instead of this catcher
this way, you would have 260k inducement (not enough for zar :cry: )

=>
1/ wizard+helmut
else
2/puggy+blitzermercenary (to have 13 men)
else
3/ Zug

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El_Jairo
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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

babass wrote:keep your money to buy a blitzer next game instead of a catcher this game :)
and take a journeymen instead of this catcher
this way, you would have 260k inducement (not enough for zar :cry: )

=>
1/ wizard+helmut
else
2/puggy+blitzermercenary (to have 13 men)
else
3/ Zug
I guess you didn't Read my latest update, my game vs lizards.

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