Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

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What would you do?

Wait for the Ogre rebuy
8
53%
Go all in on Catchers
2
13%
Just buy one catcher to reduce Loner now
5
33%
Whatever solution you came up with (post below)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 15

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El_Jairo
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Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

Hi everyone,
for our local league I started playing with Humies, as they were my only Tier 2 team and it is mostly painted.

*UPDATE* Game 6 played
Sadly the first 5 matches have proven very brutal:
First: RIP lino (no biggy)
Second: RIP Ogre (after foul and apoth couldn't help it)
Third: -AG on Lino (has 2 SPP)
Fourth: MVP on niggle journeyman
Fifth: -AV on rookie blitzer

I did buy an Apoth and my team has 3 TRR.
I was blessed with two stat-ups: +MA on Thrower and +ST on Blitzer

So the team looks as following:
1x Blitzer +ST (16 spp) (new normal skill, I prefer guard)
1x Blitzer tackle (18 spp) rolled double 5, difficult choice: Diving Tackle, Dodge, Side Step and MB all seem viable even +MA would help him hunt fast players.
2x rookie blitzer (0,5)
1x Thrower +MA, Block (16 spp) MNG
1x Block Lino (6 spp)
2x Rookie Lino's (0,4 spp)

So my next game is vs Amazons with typical guard (3x) on blitzers and block on linewomen (2x).
I'll have to wait his last game to know his exact TV but I expect something like 1300 TV.
MY TV would be 1080 if I buy a new thrower and pick the double skill.

MY Deepest disillusion:
So now I'm 5 matches in and things got worse: I was beaten by goblins, sure it was stolen but harsh it was.
I had 260k inducements and I spent them on:
Helmut Wulf, Bribe and a babe.

Second turn first half I send in Helmut after the Block Goblin, to see him roll a 1 on the chainsaw roll :o
I was so shocked I didn't even try the loner roll to see him go BH, of course.
Things got worse when I failed a GFI on the second action of the next turn. I did manage to keep knocking some golbins of the pitch but I forgot to check the reach on a troll and he blitzed my only deep blitzer that could have made the 1-0 just before half-time which would have forced at least 1 secret weapon to be fielded for 1 turn.

Needles to say, the second half went really bad as we where outnumbered and I failed to hurt the chainsaw guy over and over again. In the end I managed to catch the ball with the ST4 blitzer but I failed to see I had to not go for the hand off, which wasn't catched, of course. Needless to say, the Goblins manage to pick up the ball (4+) and make the Long Pass for the 0-1 win :(

So I end up with -AV on a rookie blitzer and 2 more MNG: rookie blitzer and lineman.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by Vinz D. »

Although starts like that can hurt your team, I think the idea should be to plan for the long term in regard to how you wish your team to end up. In that regard, for now, Journeymen aren't that bad. The reason for it is that your team now has a free set of line fodder for the line of scrimmage. If they die, they die. If they survive... Well, whoo. If they gain SPPs, only then you sack the -AG lineman and hire the SPP-gaining Journeyman in question. (Granted, if the funds allow for it).

In the long haul, Humans tend to end up as a running team, using the Catchers for the OTT attempts. (Side Step, Sprint, etc.). Therefor, giving the suggestions you posted that you were pondering on, I'd say that saving up for the Ogre is the best bet out of those three... Build a solid defence, and then start thinking about the odd offensive capability.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

Thanks D. Vinz for your advice.

I don't get why I should keep the -AG Linemen, I know there is going to be an opportunity for him to need to make a crucial dodge and then 3+ or 4+ is a huge difference in my experience. So I also want to avoid him getting more SPP.

Because like you said, Journeymen are free linefodder to put against the opposing big guy or whatnot.
And I would only hire one if he get the MVP, since funds are so low.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by Vinz D. »

Actually, keeping the -AG lineman has more to do with the fact that you don't suffer from Loner. Having three Journeymen gives you a line-up that can be hurt, whereas four mean you have to start thinking more ahead on what you are and aren't going to do... 3+ might be better then 4+, but failing an action and then having to roll a 4+ to try again is something I, at least, have never really been that good at.

Of course, if he gets SPPs that let him skill up, Block is an obvious choice for the short term... Once you get enough money to start hiring more guys, he is the first one you sack.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by MattDakka »

El_Jairo wrote:Hi everyone,
for our local league I started playing with Humies, as they were my only Tier 2 team and it is mostly painted.
Humans are not tier 2, they are low tier 1 but not tier 2. Vampires are the only tier 2 team.
I would buy a Catcher, Humans really need one of them (aim for one with either +MA or AG 4 and use him as ball carrier, if you don't get stat increases at the 3rd skill roll fire him and try again with a new one).
The Ogre is overpriced and terrible for his cost.
You can keep the -AG Lineman, is not a big problem most of times.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by rolo »

El_Jairo wrote:I don't get why I should keep the -AG Linemen, I know there is going to be an opportunity for him to need to make a crucial dodge and then 3+ or 4+ is a huge difference in my experience. So I also want to avoid him getting more SPP.
I'd keep him - you always need throwaway, expendable players to man the front line, foul, mark opposing big guys, fun stuff like that. He doesn't need agility for that. If you use him to mark a Minotaur or something, and he gets splattered, hey ... you just saved 50k.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by harvestmouse »

3 Journey Men are fine. In fact in a way they'll free you up tactically. Of course this is your defensive LOS and you have 4 blitzers with block so.........you have the skilled players.

I'd sack the 2spp lino...........what if he got MVP and a double or +ST........that's really messy. As it is, what he does is replace one of the JM on the line. So........what's the difference in reality. How many failed actions would you reroll with him? A GFI to assist maybe? But only that. Where as if you're against a line with MB and choose to move away, the JM would be better.

So for me, wait for the Ogre. Sack to the 2 spp guy, better in the short and long run in my opinion.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by Dr. Von Richten »

Fire the Lino. Humans are versatile, having a AG 2 player lessens that.

Humans are probably better off without Ogre, but I still say save up and buy him as he can give you a solid anchoring point in both offense and defense. Just never use him for anything that might be problematic if he fails.

Catchers suck; get one for when you need to score quick (1 or 2 turns), but no more than that unless the first one gets enough stat increases to develop into something else, like a sacker.

And as Vinz said, a LOS worth of Journeymen is no big deal; aside from the Ogre (and other positionals you happen to loose), I would wait with replacing players until you have enough money to get at least one reserve.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

Thank you guys for voicing your opinions.
So I will go with the majority here: just saving up for the Big Guy and hope I don't have to roll too many blocks with my linemen in the next two games.
What they typically do is just stand up and hope their armour holds during the next block they take.

I can see the value of being able to reroll a failed block, as it is true that linemen will more often try to block than dodge but a dodge can be more game-winning than a block would be with a lineman. Typically you will do the most important blocking with blitzers anyway.

Because of the battered state of my team I think I prefer not to buy catchers before I get some guard on the team. As my Thrower has become faster, this mitigates the need for speed a little. I think I need more durability to make the comeback with the team and hope to draw good inducement cards to help me win the games.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by harvestmouse »

Draw inducement cards huh?! Wow that really hurts underdogs.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by babass »

max 1 catcher per team :)
and i do like to have the ogre when i play humen

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by rolo »

On a "fully developed" team, I don't mind having two catchers. Think of them as a poor man's gutter runner on defense. Block and Sidestep makes them very irritating on defense, and they really upgrade your passing game, or at least your passing threat.

I can see ignoring them in a TV MM environment though.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by Aliboon »

Normally I'd advise waiting for the Ogre, but given you've orcs next game, I'd go with the catcher as the speed will help, as will (at least the threat of) the passing game.

Goblins you should beat anyway, Ogre or not so I wouldn't worry too much about them.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

I had about 200k inducements so I picked up the Babe and the Wizard.

Well, I didn't say that the Orcs are played by a new player to BB so I was able to win that game 2-0. He made some errors that made me keep up in numbers during the first half. Surfing two of his blitzers was key. Because he was taking out my journeymen quite effectively.
I also got lucky on the bounce when I finally had a shot at his ball carrier. The ball went out and back to the center of the pitch. I even was able to pick it up and run it in with my blitzer.

Second half I was down in numbers so when I head the chance I used my Wizard to burn a hole in his defensive line. Again I was lucky enough to get 2 out of 3 knock downs on the fireball. He wasn't able to recover from this position and I score the 2-0. I even got lucky with a blitz so he didn't have a clean shot at making his TD.
I almost felt bad for him but my MVP landed on niggled journeymen so that evened things out.

Anyways, I was able to only get a total of 130k gc so still no Ogre for me.

The goblins are coached by our most experienced coach so I'm very curious how this will go. Good thing is that I'll have 200k inducement to play around with. So I'm thinking of Babe and Wizard again. The wizard for when he can start receiving or whenever he fields a lot of secret weapons.
He has a decent squad of 15 players, Guard on both Trolls, Block (yikes) on Fanatic, Pogo-er with catch, one goblin with catch and sure feet and some side-step and a simple block goblin too.

So I decided to forgo the 10 skill-up result for my Blitzer and pick Tackle, certainly with next game being lizards and my other blitzers are still stuck at 0 SPP.
My MV 7 thrower picked up block.
So I have a little more skills but still a very rookie feeling to my team. I really would like to get guard next game.

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Re: Battered Humies, wait for rebuy Ogre or buy Catcher now?

Post by El_Jairo »

My next game is vs Lizardmen so I quickly decided to replace the -AV Blitzer and that I wanted to buy a catcher, to keep up with the skinks and to avoid having to play with 5 (five!) journeymen.

Now I'm left with the feeling of making the wrong choices for my inducements. This time I'll have 240k inducements.
He will have 11 players:
5 Skinks: 1x Rookie, 2x Sure Feet and 2x Side-Step
6 Sauri: 2x Rookie (1 MNG), Block, Dodge, MB and ST5!
Rookie Kroxi.

I didn't realise he had ST5 Saurus, so I'll be vastly out-strengthened. The positive note is that he also only has 11 players and 1x Block with 3TRR.
Sadly the high strength Star players are just out of reach.
So would you simply advice Wizard + Babe or should I try something different here?

I have read Random Mayhem is interesting vs Lizards.
I personally with thinking about a Merc Blitzer with guard, to help with the numbers and blocking. That would be 170k, right? So only enough left for 1 Mayhem card or Babe.

BTW, I have got the feeling that I will have to continue playing without the Ogre, as there is no way I can reduce the number of journeyman fast enough otherwise. Maybe this game we don't lose any more players and now I feel bad for letting that -AG lino go. I won't do it again in such a short term league (12-14 games).

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