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 Post subject: Chaos Dwarves - TV1330k where to go from here?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Sooooooo.... I've got my team through it's initial tough start - I gave up a dwarf and an APO at the start to get 4 RRs (nb we start with 1050k).

I'm now at 1330k, I bought my APO then my 6th dwarf and don't really know how I want the skills progression to look from here on in. Thoughts on the attached roster would be greatly appreciated!

I've got a bull with break tackle and took dodge when his 2nd skill was a double.
I've got a bull with block
2 of my dwarves have guard, the other 4 are unskilled
I've got a kick hobgoblin, the other 3 are unskilled

Is there any point in taking the mino at this point or is that TV better used on skills for the core guys?
Should I deck out the dwarves with guard unless I get doubles? Should I wait for a doubles for claw before taking mighty blow?
What does the BT/Dodge bull take next on a normal? Block? Sure Hands?
What does the BT/Dodge bull take next on a double? ...?
What does the block bull take next on a normal? Tackle/Strip Ball for a sweeper / sacker? Mighty Blow for a killer?
Is it worth taking anything skills on the rookie hobgoblins? Tackle?


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Dwarves - TV1330k where to go from here?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:41 pm 
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I'm not a chaos dwarf player, but this is what I would have done.
First, I would have dropped a reroll. You've got four, but for what?
You've got block and even dodge on the guy that will dodge, so I think you'd get by with three rerolls and that drops 70k of TV.

Mike_Rushby wrote:
Is there any point in taking the mino at this point or is that TV better used on skills for the core guys?


I wouldn't take the mino. Too much risk for 150k in TV.

Mike_Rushby wrote:
Should I deck out the dwarves with guard unless I get doubles? Should I wait for a doubles for claw before taking mighty blow?


A dwarf with guard and mighty blow is a good dwarf (unless you ask Heff).
If you've got the money and all the other dwarves have normal skills, there might be a point in sacking him for a rookie.

Mike_Rushby wrote:
What does the BT/Dodge bull take next on a normal? Block? Sure Hands?

It seems like you're using this bull to score and in that csae I'd go for sure hands.
Personally, I'd carry the ball with a hobgoblin and would have given the bull block.

Mike_Rushby wrote:
What does the BT/Dodge bull take next on a double? ...?

Jump up or side step maybe. I'd skip a double for block

Mike_Rushby wrote:
What does the block bull take next on a normal? Tackle/Strip Ball for a sweeper / sacker? Mighty Blow for a killer?

Why not go for break tackle on both bulls?

Mike_Rushby wrote:
Is it worth taking anything skills on the rookie hobgoblins? Tackle?

I'd take sure hands on one hobgoblin, but otherwise I think wrestle and dirty player are good skills for them

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Dwarves - TV1330k where to go from here?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:23 pm 
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Pedda has good points. To add to them:

- 3 Rerolls, max. You can go down to 2 once most of your players have block and one has Sure Hands.

- No Mino. Too unreliable

- Chaos Dwarfs; you want Guard on the first one to skill, but Mighty Blow on the others, if you can get away with it (that is, if you're not outstrengthed without more Guard). The reason for this is that, if you get a double on the Second skill, you want Claw, and Guard + Claw is a bad combo. So at 2 skills, some will be Mighty Blow+ Guard, and hopefully some will be Mighty Blow + Claw. The Guarders get Stand Firm next, the Clawers get Piling On next. After this, it depends too much on the situation to determine in advance.

- Bulls: One Ball Carrier: Break Tackle, Block, Sure Hands (hopefully +AG and/or +MA), Stand Firm/Tackle/Guard. The other one Frenzier: Break Tackle, Block, Frenzy, Juggernaut/Stand Firm/Tackle/Mighty Blow

-Hobgoblins: One ball carrier (even if you also have the Bull): Block, Sure Hands, Kick-Off Return. Up to 3 defenders: Wrestle, Fend (Tackle), 1 or 2 Foulers: Dirty Player (Wrestle)


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Dwarves - TV1330k where to go from here?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:24 pm 
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Thanks for your insights - very helpful.

The comments on re-rolls are completely the opposite to how I feel. 4 re-rolls is the difference between winning a game or not for me with an AG2 team like this where you WILL be out of position vs a speed/AG team; literally the only game I've lost is a 1 re-roll 1 on a bull centaur sprinting and failing the sure feet. Other than that losing because you've rolled double skulls on an important block or don't have a re-roll left when you sack the ball carrier and roll double push vs an AG4 player is something that can be mitigated by having enough re-rolls. In a tournament I would take 2 because I'm limited, but in a league I'm not a fan of running light - it's not robust. Worst case I give away an extra 70k in inducements than if I went with your recommended 3? That's unlikely to be the difference maker in a match.

Dirty player makes sense on a single hobgoblin, as does tackle. Not sure I want sure-hands. If they're carrying the ball then I'll buy my way out of that trouble with team re-rolls.

Only 1 guard seems VERY light on the dwarves. How does this help me vs Orcs / Lizardmen / Undead? Especially when they start taking guard! I was thinking 4 guard dwarves? The stuff about Mighty Blow for Claw is probably true - maybe the 3rd and 5th dwarf I'll stick as Mighty Blow

The frenzy bull sounds like a good shout, probably with tackle at the tail end - so probably Block, Break tackle, Frenzy, Tackle
The ball carrying bull if I get an AG/MA boost then happy days, but otherwise I've got Break Tackle and Dodge already, so probably Block next then Sure Hands? I'll bank on being able to get to my next skill before too many threats with strip ball start appearing!


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Dwarves - TV1330k where to go from here?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:58 pm 
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Mike_Rushby wrote:
Thanks for your insights - very helpful.

The comments on re-rolls are completely the opposite to how I feel. 4 re-rolls is the difference between winning a game or not for me with an AG2 team like this where you WILL be out of position vs a speed/AG team; literally the only game I've lost is a 1 re-roll 1 on a bull centaur sprinting and failing the sure feet. Other than that losing because you've rolled double skulls on an important block or don't have a re-roll left when you sack the ball carrier and roll double push vs an AG4 player is something that can be mitigated by having enough re-rolls. In a tournament I would take 2 because I'm limited, but in a league I'm not a fan of running light - it's not robust. Worst case I give away an extra 70k in inducements than if I went with your recommended 3? That's unlikely to be the difference maker in a match.


It seems like we have different playing styles. I'd rather have 70k worth of skills. That's three guard/mighty blow that will be used every turn, probably.

Mike_Rushby wrote:
Dirty player makes sense on a single hobgoblin, as does tackle. Not sure I want sure-hands. If they're carrying the ball then I'll buy my way out of that trouble with team re-rolls.


Wrestle is better than tackle, as a first skill if you're not going for sure hands.

Mike_Rushby wrote:
Only 1 guard seems VERY light on the dwarves. How does this help me vs Orcs / Lizardmen / Undead? Especially when they start taking guard! I was thinking 4 guard dwarves? The stuff about Mighty Blow for Claw is probably true - maybe the 3rd and 5th dwarf I'll stick as Mighty Blow


I didn't mean that you should be content with one guard dwarf. They should all have guard at some point (if they don't roll a double).
I was just saying that when they reach their third skill and the rest are skilled and you have the money, you could start over with a rookie. But not where the team is at now.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Dwarves - TV1330k where to go from here?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:10 pm 
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Most of my CD experience dates back from the troll era. Like my top team on Fumbbl has a Guard Mino because he was magically transformed (^_-)

On topic :
Bulls, you should definitely develop the Dodge BT one into a ball carrier / receiver. Development :
Block, Sure Hands and hope for stats.
Double only after block and I would consider Side Step or Jump Up maybe even NoS but only when you have some pass on a Hobgoblin.
I might even think about skipping the double completely but SS can be great on Blodge SH Ball Carrier .

This does not mean however that this Bull will have to retrieve the ball. With MA 6 and ST 4 Blodge BT he is far too useful up front.
That's why you need Sure hands Block, KOR Hobgoblin.
I use him to keep banging on the line until he can break for it or have the full cage move up.

Second Bull can develop as your sweeper. BT and Tackle seems like core skills. I would consider taking MB before Frenzy. But that's because I could see myself playing with the Minotard. Just because this will free up a skill from the Bulls. It is 150k worth of a huge turnover but with juggs only 1 skill away. Decently reliable Frenzy blitz that will keep the sidelines to be yours. Barring Blodge SS Elves. Which are also a good reason not to go Frenzy on the sweeper Bull. Because the frenzy traps.

On to the point of dwarfs and how much guard do you need. I prefer to take at least two guard before I start picking MB as first skill. Depending on your environment but blockers are difficult to skill so MB first set up perfectly for Claw MB and makes CD killy. Guard on the other hand will make you win more games all together.
So this is dependent of your goals with this team.

For Hobgoblins I do like one to be a Kicker. With the Bulls and some guard on the blockers you can really pin down a ball. So kicking deep VS bash gives you a shot at the Ball or the cage needs to start deep in their own half. Against faster teams, kick short to pressure the ball.
In both cases you are looking for to force the opponent to spend more than 1 player on ball retrieval

This brings us to the point of TRR. You do make a good analysis of a rookie squad, they tend to squander the TRR. So you have got the most value out of them. But once all core skills are in. Block BT for the Bulls and some guard for the dwarves and sure hands and DP on the hobgoblins
. You should cut the TRR back to 3 for optimal TV management.

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