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 Post subject: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:15 pm 
King of Comedy
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What say you? My guess is, from best to worst for a new coach joining an established league:

*** Good Starting Races ***
1 Orc
2 Amazon
3 Undead

*** Fair Starting Races ***
4 Dwarf
5 Human
6 Skaven
7 Wood Elf
8 Dark Elf

*** Some Skill Required ***
9 Chaos Dwarf
10 Norse
11 Necromantic
12 High Elf
13 Chaos
14 Elf

*** Intermediate ***
15 Lizardman
16 Chaos Pact
17 Nurgle
18 Khemri

*** Advanced ***
19 Slann
20 Underworld
21 Vampire
22 Goblin
23 Halfling
24 Ogre

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What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.


Last edited by mattgslater on Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:00 pm 
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In my mind, there is no question that Humans and Orcs are by far the best races for new players.

They can do everything decently and have no terrible deficiencies. They can reasonably take a hit, so the opportunity to do almost anything is there.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:36 am 
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I don't think dwarves are a good starting team for beginners since you don't learn to respect the value of block and the risks associated with blocking (due to AV9 and thick skull).

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Last edited by Pedda on Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:25 am 
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Pedda wrote:
I don't think dwarves are a good starting team for a beginners since you don't learn to respect the value of block and the risks associated with blocking (due to AV9 and thick skull).

+1

Imo, Human is the best choice.
The perfectly average roster, having only basic skills
This way, the noob learns the real risk & values of each action.

Then, when the noob would have assimilate all basic of the game, i suggest always to play Orcs, (against fast teams well coached), it is a good way to learn importance of positionning..

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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:04 am 
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Pedda wrote:
I don't think dwarves are a good starting team for beginners since you don't learn to respect the value of block and the risks associated with blocking (due to AV9 and thick skull).

Plus they are not the most forgiving to mistakes of positioning.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:54 pm 
King of Comedy
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Pedda wrote:
I don't think dwarves are a good starting team for a beginners since you don't learn to respect the value of block and the risks associated with blocking (due to AV9 and thick skull).
I contemplated putting Dwarfs in the second category.

babass wrote:
Imo, Human is the best choice.
The perfectly average roster, having only basic skills
This way, the noob learns the real risk & values of each action.
Humans are hard to play well. They teach you everything, sure, but their lack of distinguishing assets really plays against them, and it's difficult for a new coach to adapt to the opposition the way a Human coach has to. That's why I put them down at #8, despite starting with all (and only) the basic skills.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:58 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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I'd pop Nurgle into Advanced, just because of having to remember how tentacles works, and that FA is a thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:01 pm 
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Best to do what with?

For learning, I'd say Orcs or Humans.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:55 pm 
King of Comedy
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Say you just heard about this Blood Bowl thing and wanted to pop into a league. You went online looking for advice and found this thread. What team races should a new coach play in an environment with both new and established coaches? Let's assume it's a new 1M team, against either other new teams (some leagues restart every season), or a mix of new and established teams, in either case with both new and established coaches. So learning while taking your lumps.

In my mind, Humans are not optimal for this. Humans start well and have all the basics covered, but their lack of any major asset means the rookie coach has nothing reliable to fall back on. The Orc coach is almost always the heavy, and he can get good at playing the game from one perspective. The Elf coach has a trickier game to play, but it too is usually the same game over and over. For the Human coach, it's a new game every match. They're still not a bad way to start, but I'm not ready to move them into the top tier of teams for a new coach to learn on.

I will move Humans up (by popular demand), and while I'm not yet moving Dwarfs down the ladder, I am taking them out of the top tier.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:29 pm 
Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie

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Thanks for the context, it helps a lot. In those circumstances I would choose Orc pretty much every time. Good players, defined roles and important basic skills. It's a good roster to learn with, including basic development options.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:39 pm 
King of Comedy
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Okay, but say there were four new coaches in a league that already had an established Orc team. One of them will go Orcs, sure, but what about the other three? If a coach has a strong preference for Undead, say, over Orcs, I encourage them. Undead aren't that hard to play once you grasp the idea of using each player according to his role. What other teams are like that, in your mind?

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:54 pm 
Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie

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Location: Near Reading, UK
Undead would be a close second.

I'd probably consider rats and maybe high or wood elves for similar reasons: defined positionals and sound basic skills. W/HE have development issues for the newbie, but you could fudge the odd skill roll to give a double if needed (thinking guard in particular). Same thing about fudging skill rolls goes for any team, tbh.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:12 am 
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I wouldn't recommend WE and skaven. There is a substansial risk that they end up i a negative player death/SI/journeyman spiral that takes a boringly lot of time to get out off. Not so fun for a newbie.
Neither Humans, they seem like a jackoffalltrades-rteam but really they are a bland team that isn't even any special to begin with. Wouldn't use them with newbees for anything else than demonstration purpuses.
I would rather see Norse and Necro take their place. Norse is newbee friendly since general Block allows for alot off 1d-blocks, that newbees often end up doing and allow for start with a big bench if you start with a team that is effective rather than maximising potionals from the start. Necro has a diversified team with a great meatwall. The only player that could be considered complicated is the werewolf but he is so great that i don't see newbees being able to use him to a good enough degree.

The other 5 choices are solid to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:17 am 
Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie

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Player loss can be adjusted post-match (or even in-game) if necessary. I think WE and Skaven teach more about the positionals, and I think that's more fun.

This is about teching newbies, right? They might need a bit of a helping hand, and a couple of ad hoc house rules which keep them interested might not be amiss.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Team Races For A Noob
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:13 pm 
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If I were going to teach a newbie the game, I'd throw Orcs/Humans as the top to teach them the value of certain actions as well as give them a decent toughness.


I would do a series of one-off games with them, teaching them how basic teams work, then bashy teams, then agility teams and then the 'Trick play' teams, like Halflings, Goblins and Slann.

I'm a huge fan of trick teams, but if they don't understand how probabilities and risk-assessment work, yet, you need to start with Humans and Orcs.

On the other hand, if you're tossing them in to a league-den of ravenous wolves where CLAWPOMBers reign supreme, I'd definitely give a different suggestion.


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