Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

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plasmoid
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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by plasmoid »

For comparison/inspiration, these are the 2 Bretonnian teams I played fairly recently.
The most succesful went 11-1-0, something like 20-1 in TDs and took home the trophy for both seasons they played. The had beautiful in-game luck, when it mattered. And didn't get a single doubles or stat roll when skilling:
Noblesse Oblige
Blitzer: Leader, Dodge, Sidestep
Blitzer: Dodge, Sidestep
Blitzer: Dodge, Sure Hands, Sidestep
Blitzer: -
2x Yeoman: Guard
1x Yeoman: Mighty Blow
1x Yeoman: -
3x Lineman: Block
1x Lineman: Dirty Player
2x Lineman
2 ReRolls, TV157

Second team had a rough start, back when the knights had just GP access, but they turned it around, and came back pretty strong. These Guys rolled both doubles and stats - which helped. Still, access to Dodge on the Blitzers would have been quite the leg up.
Force Majeure
Blitzer: Tackle, Kick
Blitzer: Leader, Mighty Blow
Blitzer: ST+, Frenzy, Tackle
Blitzer: MA+, Dodge, Shadowing, Pro
2x Yeoman: Guard, Mighty Blow
1x Yeoman: Guard
1x Yeoman: AG+, Sure Hands, Strong Arm
2x Lineman: Wrestle
1x Lineman: Fend
1x Lineman: Block, Pro
1x Lineman: Dirty Player, Sneaky Git
2 ReRolls, TV177

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Omalley69 »

What kind of indeucements is more obvious for a brettonia team?

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by plasmoid »

As a team with weak linemen I'd always be looking at good star players of you have the right TV gap.
Against bashy teams, Brets are breakable enough that Apoth/Bloodweiser is a good Investment.
Against squishy teams, I'd go with Bribes. Especially if you have a DP.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

It looks like I will be playing Bretonnians in a league of indeterminate length, so I have just been looking at a skill development plan. My plan looks rather similar to the Noblesse Oblige team above:

Blitzers: Dodge, [specialist], Sidestep, [specialist]
Yeomen: Guard, Tackle, S-Firm
Peasants: Wrestle

Splitting out the Blitzers to show their specialist skill paths:

(1) Dodge, Leader, Sidestep, Tackle
(2 )Dodge, S-Hands, Sidestep, K-Ret
(3) Dodge, Frenzy, Sidestep, Tackle
(4) Dodge, Sprint, Sidestep, S-Feet [for one-turn-score].

No doubt this intricate plan for the Blitzers will be blown into the weeds by doubles, stat increases and attrition. I have thought long and hard about Jump Up... Note that only the Blitzers are partly specialised (I am a generalist at heart).

First doubles skill for Blitzers and Peasants is Guard. I have quite a bit of experience of Wrestle+Guard (on Slann and Khorne linos). It is a surprisingly good combo. Massed Guard seems very inviting on this team, given they are all ST3, and start with 4xWrestle and 4xBlock+Dauntless. One of the "blockiest" teams, potentially (also why I thought about Jump Up).

I prefer Wrestle to Block on the Peasants. It is a skill which gets better, the more you have of it. I can't be bothered with M-Blow on this team. I like the idea of Sidestep and S-Firm (adding to Fend, thus supremely annoying). No Kick for me on this team - a good skill, but not essential.

While I take stat increases in leagues, because it is so fluffy, it seems teams with no stat increases often perform better (and can be easier to manage). Depending on the team, even doubles skills can interfere with development. Noblesse Oblige seems to be an example of both.

I will go with 14 players, 2 Re-rolls + Leader initially (for a lean TV).

Hope that helps.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

Only thinking of Brets for 24 hours, but I have the general idea to give the players names of French foods and wines (sorry, no accents):

- The Knights will get pompous and evocative names of wines (e.g. Chateauneuf du Pape).

- Yeomen will get names of sturdy foods (e.g. Boeuf a la Bourguignonne, Tripe a la mode de Caen, Crapahut).

- Peasants will get very French names (e.g. Pissenlit, Crottin de Chevre, Petit Batard). [Purists will note that not only have I thrown in some salad here, but one of the names is both a wine (grape variety) and a food (loaf).]

There are many, many good candidates, so it will take a while to whittle them down to 14.

Will have to find a team name that fits well with the above!

All the best.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

Unrelated to the above, but a team name that suggests itself is: Knights of the Anarcho-Syndicalist Commune.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

Their full name is actually Confrerie des Chevaliers de la Commune Anarcho-Syndacaliste et leurs fideles Serviteurs, but one must take pity on the league scribe.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

Rather than going off topic here, I've started a Team Blog on this forum for Knights of the Anarcho-Symdicalist Commune.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by plasmoid »

Oooh. I look forward to it.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by plasmoid »

Actually, this reminds me of an old thread on bbtactics:
https://bbtactics.com/forum/threads/blo ... 417/page-5

The thread starts as a hot mess of skill advice, discussion about the old GP and some explanations from me about the thoughts behind the design of the team. Towards the end it turns more and more into a team blog for my two Bretonnian teams - Noblesse Oblige and Force Majeur, featuring the 12 game, 2 trophy and highly improbable undefeated run of Noblesse Oblige.

I think it makes for a riveting read :orc:

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

Thanks, plasmoid. I think the main challenge of Bret skill development comes from their "bi-polar" player types:

- Blitzers are both the best ball movers (Runners/Catchers) and the best at blocking/blitzing against ST4+ players (or players lacking Block),

- Yeomen are both the best guys in the scrum (because of Guard access) and the best at blocking/blitzing against players with Block or Blodge (which will often include the opposing ball carrier).

They are not alone in their "bi-polarity". Norse Runners are quite similar to the Bret Blitzers, and I consider them quite good (better than the Norse Blitzers/Berserkers if I had to choose). The Bloodletters on the Khorne team also tend to have split roles.

In addition, on the Bret team, the Linemen (Peasants) are highly specialised and limited in the roles they can take (especially with AG2), and should be limited to 3 on the pitch when the team has a full roster.

My answer is to ruthlessly limit the skills taken by the team, so that the "bi-polar" players can succeed in their dual roles. I am considering doing completely without:

- Damage skills (M-Blow, P-On, D-Player)
- Passing skills (except 1xLeader)
- Further catching skills (D-Catch, NoS, P-Block)
- Appealing Agility skills (e.g D-Tackle, J-Up)
- Common specialist General skills (Kick, S-Ball)

This is to avoid over-specialisation, and to ensure that a few key skills are well represented on the team. Reminiscent of DEs, I don't expect Brets to go toe-to-toe with bash teams, but instead to throw down a lot of blocks, and to compete deep in the long scrambling drives.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by El_Jairo »

My experience with Bret's is very limited: two Blood Bowl 2 Champ Ladder games. I went with 3x Knights and Yeoman and 5x Peasants, 3 TRR and apoth. I don't feel confident with 2 TRR and AG3 on a team I don't know yet.
First one was 460 TV down vs Chaos with questionable skill-ups (AV on Mino and beastman for example), which I was able to win due to lucky wizard and the spam of block, wrestle and Dauntless and not to forget: Mighty Zug who stopped the Chaos offence by being the hard to knock-down corner. He conceded so I
Second game was vs Necro with a Block Wolf and 2x Ghoul. He was very lucky with his armour and injury rolls, so I was down by two players but luckily he quad skulled which gave me the opportunity to move in scoring range and run it in. Second half went brutal: Knight -AV apoth into -MA, Yeoman -AG. By the end I had 4 CAS and 4 KO's against so I wasn't able to stop his equalizer.

So yeah, I do get the feeling that you need to play really conservative with Bret's, in not giving up many blocks. In my second game I tried to control his players by tying them up or just by getting my player up, instead of leaving them on the ground. Also because they lack the Agility to dodge away, you need to screen off with Peasants and Yeoman.

In TT I'm starting off with Bret's in a 1100 kTV format, so I can just upgrade the 3 TRR apoth start to the full 4x Knights and Yeomen with 3 Peasants.

I would get Dodge on all knights first and the first second skill I get would become a Leader, to shave off 50k by dropping a TRR.
I do consider taking MB because we have a very low number of Bash teams in the 8 teams league.
For Yeoman, I want to pick Tackle and Guard 50/50 because of the number of dash teams.
Peasants I do prefer to have a DP soon enough (when I have a 2-men bench). Because we get 3x MVP's (non stackable) after the first game and this would mean that there will be juicy targets quickly.

What I'm doubting about is: don't you need S-Hands quickly? I am considering to take it as the second or third skill-up on the knights. Yet if there is no S-Ball a Blodge Carrier seems more effective. And with all Knights having catch, I might be tempted to hand-off the Ball to be able to switch sides quickly and Dodge can help out a lot in that perspective and it is just too good defensively.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

Hi El Jairo, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I plan to take Dodge as first normal skill on all the Blitzers. I am nervous about not taking Leader and Sure Hands first, but Dodge is a renewable re-roll skill, and will protect the precious Blitzers. (See my team blog.)

I considered M-Blow, but I just can't see room for it. It is not my style to blitz every turn with a hunter/killer (though I am not averse to killy teams, such as my beloved CDs). I prefer ball hunting. As a clincher, I expect Orcs to be my most common opponent (in a smallish league) - I doubt M-Blow will make a notable difference against them.

Some brief practice (against myself, using Chaos in a tourney format) suggests that Brets can struggle against stronger teams. And in general, I don't see how a team with AV7 Linos is going to go toe-to-toe against a killy team. I see Brets a bit like DEs, they should generate a lot of block power, try and keep opponents on their backs, choose when to engage or disengage, and go deep in the long scrambly drives. They have the disadvantages that come with any team with all ST3 players, and highest AG of 3. If they can get to (say) 6 x Guard, I suspect that they will become quite "interesting".

All the best.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by Smeborg »

Martin - the big dilemma in my development plan for the Blitzers is between:

(a) 4 specialists (Leader, Runner, Surfer, O-T-S), and

(b) 2 pairs of "generalists" (2 x Runners, and 2 x Dodge/Sidestep/Tackle).

I have chosen (a) for now, but am not sure which is better. (b) would be more resilient.

All the best.

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Re: Brettonia for 12 game league + playoffs

Post by rolo »

Don't discount MB against high armor opponents like Orcs!

Against AV9, you go from 6/36 results on the die breaking armor to 10/36. On average, that's the difference between a break every six knockdowns, to every 3.6 knockdowns. Not to mention that you do sometimes break AV9 "honestly" and get the bonus to to the injury roll. And most Orc teams have an AV8 Thrower.
Bash teams REALLY hate being outnumbered (you've played Chaos Dwarves, you know what I mean), and even if you manage to stay about even with them, playing 10 on 10, or 8 on 9, you're doing well. Removing opposing players is the best way to prevent a numbers disadvantage, and maybe even outnumber your opponent. MB/DP helps with that :-D

I'd still take dodge first on the Blitzers though.

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