Wild Animal - Worse than Bone Head and Really Stupid?

[mattgslater]

I chimed in earlier, and I still stand by what I said. That said, my opinion has evolved as my experience at very high TV, and particularly with big-daddy Orcs (right now they're 2810k), has affected my understanding, not so much of skill relationships themselves, but of relative value of those skills.

In my league, the NBFL on FUMBBL (the premier Americas-themed league there), there are several Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, and Chaos Renegade teams: it's a very high TV league and all three races peak out highly, so usually there are about two or three of each within our 32-coach (NFL-themed) league. My Orcs see them all the time, and in some cases they have so much Claw that I have to remind myself, "they're at least as scared of me as I am of them."

But the truth is, they're way more scared of me, and for good reason. Chorfs and Chaos Renegades are really driven by ST3 players; even with serious Guard and tons of ClawMB, all that ST3 is not really as dangerous as it looks on paper. They are tough, so they don't go out a lot, but they spend a lot of time standing up. If they don't also have Stand Firm, or if I care enough to blitz with Juggernaut, they usually find themselves standing up in an unpleasant or ineffective location. Pact/Renegades, and to a lesser extent Chaos Chosen, have an easier time building Claw, and their Claws can be more mobile, but they're highly dependent on ST3/AV8 to maintain their formations, and that's a recipe for disaster if forced to stick in vs an AV9 team that's firmly committed to an excess of Mighty Blow.

However, those teams have something that scares me anyway. Minotaurs. Yah, Block and Claw and all that, sure. But... ST6/Juggernaut/Frenzy is the thing that drives me nuts. It means my usual Stand Firm driven sideline games are, well, maybe not totally lost, but much less viable. So any time I see a Juggernaut Minotaur, setting a trap for that player that doesn't really risk my better resources becomes a high-priority consideration. But savvy coaches, even given an optimal Jug Mino, won't commit him unless either they start to lose, or I make a mistake. So, "draw out the Mino" becomes a cat-and-mouse game, as my opponent looks for any excuse to attack with a guy who isn't running on Wild Animal and Loner, as he waits for that one key moment. Even then, Horns is usually huge in the equation, and MA5 is really unfriendly to a centrally oriented sideline-blitz strategy, so a Mino has to pick a side and cover it, while a Rat Ogre really fills a different role, with Prehensile Tail in lieu of horns. Similarly, the Snow Troll is best thought of as a removal piece, because an over-reliance on space games (or at least ones driven by contact) will get Norse teams in trouble.

To be sure, the Juggernauts that really piss me off are the mobile ones. Like Roxana. There's a team in my league (in the other conference, thankfully) with a Witch Elf who has Block, Juggernaut, +ST, +2 AG. If you don't get Side Step, what do you do about that? I mean, it's maddening!

[Aliboon]

Interesting stuff, the only Wild Animal I'd take in general would be the Snow Troll, basically because he can get the Claws/MB combo and is another potential guard piece on a team that needs it. I'm surprised so few "good" coaches take him., but then the Norse do have Ulfs.

I'd agree that WAs are overpriced and whilst WA is definitely worse than Bonehead, I can't say in itself it is worse than RS. The problem with WAs is that they are also (apart from the Bloodthirster, who I'd imagine would be taken by most coaches) AV8. They are often the weakish, expensive link on a team. WA means that they really need to be the team's main blitzer, this puts them in more danger, frenzy can take them away from the rest of the team and then often they get blitzed/fouled out of the game.

I can't see why CDs would take Minotaurs, they already have ST4, AV9 blitzers. Similarly Chaos always have ST4 blitzes, but at least their Mino can get mutations on a normal roll. Chaos Pact Minos, whilst they are the best blitzer on the team, (at least to start) are also the most expensive player.

The only team I really play much with who can get WAs are skaven, I might have taken a Rogre in the past, but not now. Whilst he would help against AG teams, he doesn't really against bash teams and is just really expensive for what little he generally does.

Matt has a good point about Trolls, with 4 BoBs and 4 blitzers Orcs just don't need them. Yeah, he can give a one-turner opportunity, but how often do they come off....

Nurgle probably don't need the Beast either, although he does have some nice skills.

So, overall I think that BH>WA>RS, but the lack of coaches taking WAs has pretty much as much to do with AV8 and the teams they play for as it has to do as with WA itself.