Skaven Throwers?

[Aliboon]

Are they worth it?

I swore off them after one basically lost me a game because he rolled a double 2 on a pick up. My subsequent no thrower team has been mercurially successful, either winning easily (winning most or even all games one season and then winning the bloodbowl the next) or getting soundly beaten for games on end (but then I think that is just a feature of high risk high reward teams, when they work, they work, when they don't, they don't).

I'm now maybe thinking of taking a thrower. Not to use them as one, but as a Leader caddy (which I think is TV efficient as opposed to a lino and a reroll) and maybe as a kicker - I've only just manged to replace my dead kicker and it's gotta be easier to do it with a thrower getting a quick completion and then a nominated MVP (although skaven have no "dead turns" as a one turner is always an option).

They do get two cheap skills and access to throwing ones above a lino and a long as I'm not tempted to use them to throw, then that should work out I think?

But is that the right option? I've got some great grunners. Two MA10 ones, an Ag6 horns, wrestle strip baller and a utility/ball carrier one with sure hands, SS, block and fend so don't need the thrower to ever touch the ball.

Should I develop a throwing thrower, or just see him as a glorified lino and avoid using that AG3 as far as possible? Or should I just continue to avoid them altogether?

The only time I can see me wanting to use the sure hands and pass is on a one turner attempt, when I'm out of rerolls. Am I being overly cautious after one bad exprience, or is it sound to just avoid them altogether?

Also, how may rerolls is right for skaven? I have 4 which seems about right. Would an extra leader one be worth taking, or should I get rid of one if I did?

[lunchmoney]

Re thrower and the pick up, Vs gutter runner pick up -
I hear this debate a lot and it simple numbers.
Thrower 3+ with built in reroll.
Gutter runner 2+.
Thrower total odds of failure 1/9.
Gutter runner total odds of failure 1/6.
The GR can use a team reroll to make that 1/36 failure, but it is the team reroll.
Personally I prefer to not use team rerolls on something a player can do themselves.
Ergo I like to include a thrower.
Give them leader and bring your team rerolls down to 2.

[Jip]

Context is king here.

Are Throwers for a team with two MA10 Gutter Runners, an Ag6 horns, wrestle strip baller Gutter Runner and a utility/ball carrier one with sure hands, SS, block and fend? Probably not.

Are Throwers useful for newer teams without that many SPPs in the bank? Probably.

As Lunchmoney points out, the in-built re-rolls of the Thrower are handy a lot of the time, and invaluable for end of game plays (another feature of high risk high reward teams!) where re-rolls might be gone, or at least limited. The OTTD option is vastly improved knowing the pick-up and (if necessary) pass both have re-rolls locked in.

[Barney the Lurker]

Something else to consider is that if you pick up with a thrower you have 4 gutter runners to hand off to. If you pick up with a gutter runner you only have three others to hand off to. Its a small thing, but gets more relevant as they get removed from the pitch

[BillyDee]

Something else to consider is that if you pick up with a thrower you have 4 gutter runners to hand off to. If you pick up with a gutter runner you only have three others to hand off to. Its a small thing, but gets more relevant as they get removed from the pitch

I was going to make exactly this point.

[Regash]

I swore off them after one basically lost me a game because he rolled a double 2 on a pick up.

You ruled out a positional on a team because of ONE missed action?!?
WOW!
You're gonna rule out Gutter Runners next when one of them fails 2 GFI for the TD?

You should have punished the dice, not the team!

And no, I never really understood why people take away a whole lot of fun by skipping the passing game.
Dice optimization, chances, blablabla...
It's a game and should be fun, I rather talk about a colossal loss for years then making this game a strategic thing and win just by taking chances out of the game.

Oh, and yeah, the probability of the pickup chances the others mentioned... I'd consider that too! (Because dice optimization and stuff, ya know?)

[spubbbba]

Something else to consider is that if you pick up with a thrower you have 4 gutter runners to hand off to. If you pick up with a gutter runner you only have three others to hand off to. Its a small thing, but gets more relevant as they get removed from the pitch

Also a ST3 sure hands ball carrier (ideally with block) is useful if there are strip ball wardancers hanging about.

[Aliboon]

Regash the double 2 would have been fine with the grunner for the pick up though (and the gfi for that matter!)

I've also lost games where a blockless player failed a rerolled 2d block when I could have blocked with a block player instead but didn't so I could use them later in the turn. Heinsight is a wonderful thing.

I get the odds, but Ag4 with a team reroll will fail maybe 1 game in 12, Ag 3 with skill reroll 1 game in 3 (assuming 3 pick ups/game). Throwers have their uses (defending against strip ballers being one) but I'm not convinced by them as the first choice ball carrier.

[Regash]

It might be you take this game and winning way to serious for my taste. But that is just my opinion.

[rolo]

Short Answer: I like the thrower.

Longer Answer: They're ONLY useful if you use them as a thrower.
Their skills (Sure Hands + Pass) are worthless without the ball.
Thrower (70k) + Leader (20k) = 90k, Lineman (50k) + Reroll (60k) is slightly more expensive BUT you don't lose the reroll if an AV7 player without Block leaves the field.
The reality is that you WILL need to pass sometimes, and the Thrower has built in rerolls for that. Without a team reroll handy, the Thrower is flat-out better than GR's at picking up and throwing. With a team reroll, the GR is better ... but that's one less reroll for blocking, dodging, gfi ...
Sure it hurts to roll double 2's. But did you ever roll 1-rr-3 with a Gutter Runner, then failed a roll later?
And that's not even counting skills like Accurate and Extra Arms (on doubles). Those aren't very TV efficient, but it makes your thrower very reliable, lets you use your Gutter Runners all over the field, and fundamentally changes your offense in ways which make it difficult to defend.

Plus if you're playing BB2, they have a cybernetic warpstone cannon arm. Doesn't have an in-game effect but it looks cool.

[rvlvr]

Plus if you're playing BB2, they have a cybernetic warpstone cannon arm. Doesn't have an in-game effect but it looks cool.

Agreed — this is a big factor!