Amazon teams

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:36 pm

I think the point he is making is similar to one of my complaints with the Norse. With just one basic stat line, the 6-3-3-7, there is only so much you can do. Specialists on other teams are generally formed from their stat line as to how to go. With Norse and Amazons it is more difficult to accomplish this, as what one player can do generally any player can do. In a way it is even worse for the 'zons, as their re-rolls are so cheap they can overload on RR's quickly.

Richard

Quilwood · Post by **Quilwood** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:12 pm

I understand how to diversify a team, and I know stat increases change a team considerabley. My Amazons did gain a few Stat increases: 3 linewoman got +1ST (only one made it to the finally roster because of death), 1 thrower got +1MA (not a huge change after 2 other skills), and a Catcher got +1AG before block and consiquentially died.

Saying that my other teams based there strategies on there skill upgrades is wrong. Everyteam I started I pushed tward a direction i wanted. With the Dwarves the Blitzers gained Sure Hands, and one got Pro, before either of them got a doubles or a stat increase. I used my blitzers for 2 turn scorers from the first game they played. Again with the Storm Verman; they got guard because they had strength access. I only added I gave them spikes to emphisise the point that they are point men for a beating.

Bloodbasher Masher, I stated I tried almost every skill option out there including Pass Block and Dirty Players. I didn't choose Hail Mary and Diving Catch because my Chaos Dwarf team was using that at the same time and It has a hard time working when you can't get players away from other players (via speed). You go on to say +1AG on a catcher is a good thing (isn't it always and what does it change besides leap access and a death wish), I didn't mention the +1ST linewoman, but then only drew Black Orcs and big Guys tward them. Giving catchers sure feet is a bad thing seeing as they will never use it because of the numerous rerolls. +1MA on a catcher is always a boon, but what does it change in the teams strategy. Your last comment states the Amazons need more doubles and stat increases to be more diverse. So, your saying if you get better skill rolls they'll be better

.

One thing thats been brought to my attention is that some people either get a ton of doubles and stat increases or there oponents don't take them out fast enough. If any Amazon player gets way ahead of the group she is going to get a beating, and will keep getting one untill she isn't on the roster any more. Now I know you would say this would go for any team, but thats not true. Normally stat increases put the player beond accessible. Take for instence those AG5 wardancers. It is almost imposible to catch or even knock one of them down. A one turn Gutter Runner is on and off the field so fast you don't normally get a shot. Our league has a Black Orc with 3AG, and sprint who is also won't go down. Bull Centaurs are almost always a pain to play agenst nomatter how they advance. This goes for every one of those "star" position slots on a team.

The Norse also suffer from lack of diversity, but they have there blitzers and a Big Guy. Norse can change there persinality by what kind of Big Guy they have or if they have one. If they go for the Piling on Blitzers. Yes, overall Norse are just about as bland and the only thing stopping them from being the most bland is that they have a huge backstory (either the hard drinking boat lovers, or the chaos maruaders) and the existence of Amazon teams.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:20 pm

Pariah wrote:Why turn your catchers into defensive specialists when you have blitzers? Who are already half way there? YOu need 4 skill upgrades for your catchers to get there and then they are really wasting catch on defense. Your blitzers only need 2 skill upgrades to be just as tough.

Because the catchers have access to agility skills, which means that i can get side step and diving tackle when i want. The blitzers would need a double for stand firm and another double for diving tackle.

Also, since catchers score more TDs, they advance faster, so getting the necessary skills takes less time.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:30 pm

Well, since they are reworking all of the rosters anyway, doesn't it just make this whole discussion moot?

I enjoy the 'Zons and think that they are a good team. Not the best, mind you, just good, decent. Isn't that how ALL the teams should be? Not overpowering, but not overly weak, like 'Flings? If you don't like the 'Zons, don't play them

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:24 pm

I guess I'd rather just have my catchers keep advancing by scoring.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:23 pm

In a way, the "one stat" line for the 'zons and Norse is a boon. If in a game you've had your catchers taken out, your linemen can fill in (getting extra SPP's in the process), just using RR instead of skill RR. In this case the 'zons are doubly blessed with cheap RR's.

My 1st game swith 'zons was against a DE team. I won 4-0, and the TD's were spread around the team. I also pull of a few (strategic) quick pass, so Comp SPP's are spread around as well.

So I find, until you get some spelalised players (+ST, +AG) you build towards a well-rounded team with 1 and 2 skill players quicker than teams with dedicated catchers, throwers, etc., who seem to get all their skillls concentrated on 2 or 3 players.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:39 am

Pariah wrote:I guess I'd rather just have my catchers keep advancing by scoring.

Yeah, but with dodge and catch, do they really need anything else to make them good scorers? Nerves of steel is the only thing i can think of, and i'd give them that on a double. But on normal rolls, i find the defensive specialist route to be the most effective for them.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:11 am

Zombie wrote:Yeah, but with dodge and catch, do they really need anything else to make them good scorers?

Nerves of Steel, Sprint and Sure Feet...and on doubles Jump Up.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:26 am

Nerves of steel requires a double. Sprint and sure feet i've always considered pretty worthless. I used to fire players who got +1 MA, and either of those skills is worse than that. I consider the total of the two to be about equivalent to +1 MA. Jump up also requires a double.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:11 am

I don't see why extra movement in a game of distance is so worthless. especially when MA 6 requires either a dice roll or 3 turns to score. Sounds like a bad choice to me.

But you play your way and I'll play mine. That's not the point of the thread. The point is that Amazons are limited in their diversity and I have seen nothing from to disprove that other than making an AV 7 team into a defense team. You only played 9 games so I don't think you know that it was a good move. My guess, would be not. A couple good hits on the "defensive specialists" and the offense is real bad shape.

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:10 am

'zons just end up getting outclassed. Dodge ends up moot very quickly, and with a WHOLE TEAM of armour 7, you cringe every time a Pow comes up on the ol' block dice. They all run the same, hit the same, and get hurt the same...it's a team of bland, bland players.

My favourite player I think I have on any team of mine anywhere is my +MA +AG 6/4/4/9 Chaos Warrior. He's just so cool, I doubt you'd likely ever see another Chaos Warrior like that anywhere, and nobody ever expects him to do what he does.

I'd like to see a 'zon player that distinctive in two skills. Even stats. Maybe two +ST or +AG, but that's about it. And then it wouldn't even be "distinctive", just "I got two stat rolls of the same thing and so I'm awesome at one thing only."

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:52 am

The point is that with everyone having the same stat, a mere stat upgrade (even if it's just +1MA) makes your player stand out from the rest. With just a couple of those spread out in your team, you've got a team that's quite diversified.

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:57 am

I've never found that stats make 'zon players stand out. I have a +AG Blitzer...what does she do? Hit people...that's about it. Nothing special about it at all. Sure, she COULD catch the ball, and can Dodge a bit better, but it's nothing spectacular...

Just, for some reason, on 'zon teams...stat upgrades seem "blah". Like something erroneous that makes one player disrupt the "harmony" of a great big line of completely identical players.

I have a Thrower who got doubles and took Strong Arm instead of Block. She's CONSTANTLY being knocked over because of this. She isn't "better", or "distinctive". She's an abberation. She drives me nuts, she's a weak link. Because she ISN'T just like all the other players. Which seems idiotic in explanation...but makes perfect sense when you play the team.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:23 am

Stat increases are hardly something to rely on coming your way.

If the best way to develop your team in a unique way is to sit on your hands and wait for a stat increase I'd say there is a problem.