Do we need more PBEM leagues...?

Be it FUMBBL, PBeM, the Cyanide Computer Game, VASSAL or whatever - talk about online play here.

This is also the place for discussing the various tools for managing leagues, teams and so on.

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GalakStarscraper
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Post by GalakStarscraper »

What I'm aiming at is that you could, if you wanted, create a tool which read all rules from configuration files. So when you start a new game you are able to select a ruleset for which you have _total_ control. Someone could even make up a rule configuration which would let you play blood-volley or something...
It already sets up the rules from configuration files. Now I understand what you mean by total control ... and to a large extent you can really mess with the rules. Programming in every change to work in both 3rd and BB2k1 edition is there for that flexibility. A mass number of internet skills are options to allow more.

Now if you are talking about configuration files for something like changing the table you'd need to Pass the ball .... well ... that would be on the longer list of things to do. Heck Ronald and I each currently have a list of 10 improvements each to make the program and that's still just getting it to play Blood Bowl ... not BB Soccer, CrossCheck, BBVB, etc.

Now I take no offense to your comments, yes the tool can be better. That's why Ronald and I between burnouts keep changing it. Asked Dangrous Dave what the program was like 13 months with version 1.6c ... so the tool has come a long way in the last year and we'll keep improving it.

For now controls on the player purchase option has to wait. Even using configuation files, the combination of players possible for the MBBL2 or even the PBeMBBL is too large a task to tackle with the other stuff on the plate.

I hope I phrased this well, Christer, as I welcome and encourage folks to give me ideas on improving the PBeM tool ... its why I got so frustrated with Toby as I couldn't get a concrete answer about what needed to be better with the program.

As for designing a version yourself .... man good luck, I wish you well. I have a lot of respect for SkiJunkie ... getting a program to PLAY Blood Bowl is a major pain. It took me 3 days to write the code for just Throw TeamMate which is now in the new beta 2.2 version because of all the rules and variants allowed ... (like 2 range band penalties for throwing Wood Elf Catchers with Right Stuff in 3rd edition) ...

I've put so many hours into programming the tool I've lost track and Ronald has 5x that many hours into it. If you've never seen Blood Bowl Alive, check it out ... here is a great 3-D graphics Blood Bowl project started and then abandoned by 2 great programmers when they realized just how many rules where involved with Blood Bowl and gave up for lack of hope of every finishing.

Example ... using straight BB2k1, programming TTM looks like (note: JUST TTM ... not the landing roll)

1) Does the player have TTM and is there an adjacent player from his team with Right Stuff?
2) Is the target square empty and is it in range .... remember a 1 band penalty for the throw and factor in range limits for Blizzard weather
3) Are there adjacent TZs on the thrower?
4) Any foul appearance opponents within 3 squares?
5) Is the weather Very Sunny?
6) Using the AG of the Thrower and the modifiers from 2 through 5, calcuate the roll needed for fumble, inaccurate pass, and accurate pass.
7) If player has Always Hungry roll for this.
7a) If failed and player has Pro, make Pro reroll if not already used
this turn.
7b) If still failed, roll D6, on 1 player is eaten ... if he had the ball
scatter it 1 square from the thrower.
7c) If still failed, but 2+ rolled, scatter player, if out of bounds roll injury
and throw-in... if scatter on top of another player, push back,
AV/Inj for both, scatter ball if he had it .... if square empty,
make AV/Inj for thrown player and scatter ball if he had it.
8) Make pass roll if accurate, make Landing roll ... if not accurate proceed.
9) If player is not a big guy and team reroll not used, then allow team reroll .. also check for Pro and allow this option if player has Pro and its not been used this turn.
10) If team or Pro reroll allowed and requested, then reroll result, if accurate, make Landing roll ... if not accurate proceed.
11) If fumble, scatter from thrower and make all the tests described in 7c.
12) If inaccurate, scatter 3 times from target square ... if at any point the player goes out of bounds stop and make injury roll .. if he had the ball, throw-in .... if all 3 rolls land on the pitch, proceed.
13) if scatter on top of another player, push back, AV/Inj for both, scatter ball if he had it .... if square empty, make Landing roll.

All I'm trying to say is that making a Blood Bowl program is a lot more daunting then it sounds. Add the fact that the rules will be tweeked every year, and it becomes even more so. A game that was as customizable as you suggest is beyond my ability to visualize based on what I know so far. I'm not shooting it down, its a great dream ... just don't have a good idea of how it would get there.

The PBeM tool is somewhat unique in that it tries to automate all the variants ... SkiJunkie's approach is that the program works only one way, no variants. Like I said I think both programs are incredible when you consider that they are free (and yes, I know you said that ... I'm just repeating it).

Galak

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christer
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Post by christer »

Absolutely.. I'm fully aware of how annoying all those small things can be.. Especially if you don't think of them in advance and suddenly realize you have to redesign the entire program to handle some specific rule..

Just a few comments on your TTM example..

I would probably make the pass method take an argument which allows you to modify range and/or apply further modifiers. This would then be used both for regular passes and TMM throws. Also, I'd probably make a nice little contruct for rerolling as well..

Also, and now I'm nitpicking, #9 on your list isn't really useful under 2k1 rules, is it? I don't think there are non-big guys that have throw team mate.. :)

I'm glad you don't take offense. I'm very impressed by the work you guys have put into the tool. If I were to give it a shot, it would probably result in me giving up due to the amount of work needed.. Although it would probably be an interesting challenge.. Maybe I will try some day.. :) Don't hold your breath though...

-- Christer

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GalakStarscraper
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Post by GalakStarscraper »

christer wrote: I would probably make the pass method take an argument which allows you to modify range and/or apply further modifiers. This would then be used both for regular passes and TMM throws. Also, I'd probably make a nice little contruct for rerolling as well..
Tried that but the ball and a player are too very different beasts ... plus Trolls don't try to eat the ball and you cannot Hail Mary Pass, Accurate, Strong Arm, etc, etc. a halfling. At the end of the day, the if statements to tell the two apart where just a code mess so a separate module was used.
Also, and now I'm nitpicking, #9 on your list isn't really useful under 2k1 rules, is it? I don't think there are non-big guys that have throw team mate.. :)
Currently per the official BB2k1 rules, Morg, Ripper, Deeproot, and Grashnak can use Team Rerolls ... so until that changes (which it MIGHT in October) there are BB2k1 players with Throw TeamMate that can use Team Rerolls.

Galak

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christer
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Post by christer »

Ok. I'm sure you know better.. I haven't tried myself :)

And regarding Stars.. Ah, yes. :oops: Should have thought of them.. :)

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