MBBL Season 2 preparing to start

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 9:52 pm

Okay as soon as I get the kicking rules programmed into the PBeM software ... season 2 will start ... I'm hoping no later than end of October ... sooner if at all possible .. the kicking rules require a lot of code to make sure I cover all the possibilities.

Anyway, since the MBBL is a testing league ... I thought you might want to see what rules we are trying out.

The teams:
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/MBBL_GWRosters.html

The kicking rules:
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/MBBL_Kicking.html

I hope Thradin sees these rules ... he'll be very happy to see the Dwarf roster we are testing. The thing he begged for for over a month is in the test rules for our next season.

Galak

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:46 am

The kicking rules are getting closer to looking like a proper addition to the game. I still have a few problems with them, which I'd like to mention now:

1) Am I the only person who would be ashamed of playing a game that included the Dirty Kick skill? Blood Bowl has its humor, but Dirty Kick doesn't fit in. There's a level of maturity in the current rules that would be lost if Dirty Kick were to be added.

2) Galak has mentioned before that in previous testing, only .2 or so field goals were made each game. I don't think this is a positive aspect of the rules - what's the point of adding all this if it rarely affects the outcome? I think the kicking game would get more use if a kicker could kick the ball out of a friendly player's possession, as an option. It would help simulate the field goal in American football. The kicker should be required to make an accurate catch roll and then immediately kick the ball.

3) The shanking rules are better from previous incarnations, but they still bother me. I don't like how a kicker attempting a short field goal from the middle can actually improve his odds by facing off to the side of the goal posts. If you try to kick straight, neither shank possibilty could go in, but if you kick diagonally, you get a chance of the shank going straight ahead. That's a bit odd, isn't it? Without changing the entire kicking system, it looks like you can't eliminate this, so I suppose this will remain a quirk with the rules. I'll try to live with it for now.

4) I can't support making kicking field goals an official part of the game until the board is ready. The field goal zones need some form of on-board identification and the score track needs more room. Without those changes to the board, the rule will look like it doesn't belong.

Pink Horror

tchatter · Post by **tchatter** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:33 am

Along the lines of increasing the score track...

Why are FG's 2 and TD's 3?? Am I missing something?

What is wrong with FG's =1 and TD's = 2? Isn't that the same thing? Wouldn't that lessen the need for a longer score track?

TC

DaFoola · Post by **DaFoola** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:24 am

Yes, why Is the scoring 2FG/3TD rather than 1FG/2TD?

As I recall, 1FG/2TD would be virtually the same as the scoring system under the kicking rules used in 2ed.

curious.

btw, would any mbbl coaches care to give me the last game i need in order to qualify for play in this league?

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:51 am

Galak,

I'm a bit puzzled.... what exactly are we testing as part of the Dwarf roster?

Dave

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:52 am

Galak,

I'm a bit puzzled.... what exactly are we testing as part of the Dwarf roster?

Dave

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:42 am

Blood Bowl has its humor, but Dirty Kick doesn't fit in. There's a level of maturity in the current rules that would be lost if Dirty Kick were to be added.

Just what have u been smoking ph, obviously u dont read any of the fluff in either of the manuals. Or was that meant as a joke?

btw, would any mbbl coaches care to give me the last game i need in order to qualify for play in this league?

Im available, as soon as i set up another team to test.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:43 am

Dirty kick does belong in there.
Dafoola im available

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:20 am

Pink Horror wrote: 1) Am I the only person who would be ashamed of playing a game that included the Dirty Kick skill? Blood Bowl has its humor, but Dirty Kick doesn't fit in. There's a level of maturity in the current rules that would be lost if Dirty Kick were to be added.

I actually think this fits in with the 2nd edition pics and feel. And when I think about who is likely to take this skill ... well the Goblin kicker seems like the 1st guy in line.

2) Galak has mentioned before that in previous testing, only .2 or so field goals were made each game. I don't think this is a positive aspect of the rules - what's the point of adding all this if it rarely affects the outcome? I think the kicking game would get more use if a kicker could kick the ball out of a friendly player's possession, as an option. It would help simulate the field goal in American football. The kicker should be required to make an accurate catch roll and then immediately kick the ball.

What I should mention though PH is that it did greatly impact the feeling of those games. Where there would normally have been dead turns there where spirited attempts at those 1 in 50 chance kick to gets points. It added a lot of action to the game without intruding on the normal feel of the game. Kicking is an option not a strategy. I'm pretty happy with that setup. As for trying to kick the ball out of opponent's hands .... I think the Dirty Kick skill simulates this actually. Now I'm sure you might disagree here, but it is a skill to take out another player. I'd be willing to add a "Strip Ball" type trait to the Kicking category, but I'm not thinking of an easy to word such a skill. It is a suggestion that has merit and one to think about.

3) The shanking rules are better from previous incarnations, but they still bother me. I don't like how a kicker attempting a short field goal from the middle can actually improve his odds by facing off to the side of the goal posts. If you try to kick straight, neither shank possibilty could go in, but if you kick diagonally, you get a chance of the shank going straight ahead. That's a bit odd, isn't it? Without changing the entire kicking system, it looks like you can't eliminate this, so I suppose this will remain a quirk with the rules. I'll try to live with it for now.

Actually one the MBBL coaches was a former college kicker for football. His input into the kicking rules was that it IS actually easier for most kicks to make successful field goals if they lined up facing off to the side of the goal posts. So its actually based on a reality check.

4) I can't support making kicking field goals an official part of the game until the board is ready. The field goal zones need some form of on-board identification and the score track needs more room. Without those changes to the board, the rule will look like it doesn't belong.

Version 2.3 beta of the PBeM tool will have the changes you are asking for to both the scoring and the pitch. If the rules became official, you'd be looking at a need for 19 new miniatures (assuming JJ doesn't do the really smart thing and pull out the 2nd edition kicker moulds) ... that would be the starting point. The next would be a revamped board. I agree.

Galak

Pink Horror[/quote]

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:27 am

tchatter wrote:Along the lines of increasing the score track...

Why are FG's 2 and TD's 3?? Am I missing something?

What is wrong with FG's =1 and TD's = 2? Isn't that the same thing? Wouldn't that lessen the need for a longer score track?

TC

This way 2 field goals is worth more than 1 TD. Kicking Field Goals is risky business. This way they have worth if you try.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:29 am

Dangerous Dave wrote:Galak,

I'm a bit puzzled.... what exactly are we testing as part of the Dwarf roster?

Dave

Having the Kicker be a separate player. Thradin's biggest problem with the kicking rules was lossing a Dwarf Runner to get a Dwarf Kicker. Plain and simple he thought that sucked. The new set of rules for Kicking have the Dwarf Kicker a seperate position .... something he was bugging Chet for for a couple months on both the BBC Locker Room and here.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:04 pm

CALLING WOODY (aka Deathwing) and SBG .... hey guys are you playing in Season 2???

Are you injured .. if so hopefully someone can tell me so I can send get well wishes.

Just haven't heard from you and wanted confirmation that A) you were playing in Season 2 ... and B) that you were rolling your teams over to season 2.

Oh and lastely DaFoola ... don't forget the most important part of joining the MBBL ... writing me an E-mail to tell me that you want to join.

I need name and email address
How close are you to your 2 games finished.
What race from the MBBL did you want to play.

Oh and sign up for the MBBL_PBeM group at yahoogroups.com so you can be up to date on the league.

Galak

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:17 pm

Okay Galak, I know I can be difficult to understand at times, but I wrote "friendly player", not "opponent's hands". I don't know where you got that from (but I'd like to see a skill like that instead of Dirty Kick). What I wanted was to allow a player on the kicker's team to be able to act as a holder. Maybe there could be an additional roll if you choose to kick this way, maybe not. I think the kicking game could use a little boost if it's worth adding.

I've never seen 2nd edition Blood Bowl, and maybe that's where the Dirty Kick flavor came from. 3rd edition Blood Bowl might make fun of violence, and fouling, and sportsanship, but I didn't think it had the low-ball humor of kicking people in the crotch (that one card / event about tainted water is the closest to that level, and I wouldn't mind seeing it removed either). Anyway, Dirty Kick isn't needed for the kicking rules. If you guys in the BBRC want to vote on the kicking rules, fine, but can you make Dirty Kick a separate vote? Unappealing riders are for Congress, not board games.

Pink Horror

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:42 pm

Okay ... now I see what you meant PH ... interesting ... I'll have to think over how to phrase that one in my head and see if can be done is a simple way that works well.

As for Dirty Kick ... well a lot of folks like it ... especially the coaches with Goblins. I see where you are coming from with your idea of childish humor not being in BB ... I think its something to discuss.

Look at it this way ... you originally wanted the direction roll gone to have more control over the landing spot of the ball ... you got one of your wishes.

Galak

ljm · Post by **ljm** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:29 am

The latest MBBL version of kicking sure looks good to me, although I was a bit surprised to see a couple of changes to previous rules (mainly the smaller field goal area and the new skills). I like the new shanking.

Just out of curiosity, Galak, are these the latest rules by Chet, or did you modify them a lot for MBBL?

ljm