Blood Bowl 2, more info

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plasmoid
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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by plasmoid »

Hi Guys,

Shteve0 said:
Urgh. Confirmed?
Just curious - is that line-up really so bad that you'd rather roll the dice with what Cyanide could come up with?

Spubbbba said:
They'd look fine on the battlefield just not on the pitch.
Far what it's worth, that's not the look I'd have gone for either.
That's why my Bret team changed the titles long ago from Knights, Squires and Peasants to Blitzers, Yeomen and Linemen.
That said, it doesn't seem far removed from the other Cyanide Visuals:
Human/imperial team with wings on their helmets? Or check out the ridiculous head-gear on the high elfs. It seems Cyanide is still leaning on the 3rd ed. concepts, where BB was fairly closely to tied to WFB.
Just saying.
That's why I've always had an issue with Brettonians, every team list has been bland and added nothing to the game.
At the very least I'd call that a debatable point.
I'd list what I think is Unique about my current line-up, but that is probably beside the point.
Anyway - that's the line any suggested Bret team has had to walk:
One side saying they have to add something quite Unique in order not to be pointless.
The other saying that anything Unique isn't really human - because the human team is what constitutes human.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by Shteve0 »

Yes, given an absolute choice between the two outcomes, I think I would rather have seen what Cyanide came up with on their own.

Better yet, I'd rather they created something new and fun, not just crowbar-ing a tedious Warhammer army into the BB world; or that they worked on implementing Slann or Chaos Pact instead. As it is, I honestly don't see what adding a minor human variant team brings to the table, or how dropping 15 or so existing teams adds anything but repetition to the user experience.

FUMBBL's looking more attractive by the day.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by Fassbinder75 »

I'm afraid I agree with you 100% Shteve0. I'm a BB progressive generally and fluff is mostly irrelevant to me, but the Bret list just doesn't move the needle from a mechanical standpoint.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by Moraiwe »

I'm not against a Brettonian roster - I'm even keen to see what it is - but I do think it's a bit of a wasted opportunity. I like that Cyanide are trying to create new things, but there were much better choices for another human-based roster. Brettonia isn't culturally nor technologically different enough to warrant a roster ahead of areas like Cathay or Araby.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by connexion »

spubbbba wrote:The Brettonians are either dressed as peasants or knights, equipment not really practical for bloodbath.
Not every team goes into the pitch geared up to cause or experience a blood bath...

Image

I rest my case.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by WhatBall »

Shteve0 wrote:FUMBBL's looking more attractive by the day.
You are always welcome. :)

And FUMBBL has 16 unique Stunty Leeg rosters, each one infinitesimally more awesomer than any Brett roster.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by plasmoid »

Hi Guys,
ShteveO said:
Yes, given an absolute choice between the two outcomes, I think I would rather have seen what Cyanide came up with on their own.
Fair enough. Given your generally positive take on Cyanide competence and your well known love for the Khorne team, I can see why you'd be happy to roll with that. Not everyone share that position.

Also - I'd have loved to see Slann or Pact too. But that doesn't really have anything to do with why it was "Ugh", that their Bret roster according to Darkson is identical to mine. If it wasn't, it would still be a Bret roster.

Moraiwe said:
Brettonia isn't culturally nor technologically different enough to warrant a roster ahead of areas like Cathay or Araby.
I have no idea why Cyanide decided to include Brets in their release.
But for me - if they're culturally different enough to have their own army, they could have their own roster. Rather that than open the door to a ton of variant roster (Skaven Clan rosters, dwarf hold rosters, human nation rosters, etc.). Having an existing army book (=fluff material), existing miniatures (for conversion) and an existing fan base (who might cross over) is a good place to start.

Fassbinder said:
the Bret list just doesn't move the needle from a mechanical standpoint.
Well, I don't know what would move the needle for you. But perhaps your comment ties in with Spubbbbas claim that " every team list has been bland and added nothing to the game".

I don't think a 25th team could add anything groundbreakingly new. But sticking to my own Bret roster, I think it adds plenty of interesting perspectives:
1. Given the restriction to stick with humans and human statlines, I think they offer plenty of new challenges, while reflecting the hierarchic nature of Bretonnian society/culture.
2. A roster featuring 2 of the "new" CRP skills: Wrestle and Fend.
3. The team is the only one to feature throwers/P-access as their best positional - and 0-4 thrower-types at that.
4. These top positionals are also the only top positionals to not have access to the 2 power categories S and A. That leaves the head coach with a lot of Unique skilling decisions.
5. #2 and #3 (as well as them starting with Catch) combined means that team could develop into a dump-off side. That's a well known house rule variant idea, sometimes presented as an Albion roster.
6. Also concerning Blitzer Development: Blitzers will be accruing SPPs - but with only G and P, and starting with 2 of the most useful G skills, where do you develop them? Fend? (See #7). Surely a spot of Tackle. Frenzy? Pass Block (with catch)? One with sure hands or is kick-off return better? Personally, I'm leaning towards some Pro (for Blocking as well as for Dauntless).
7. The linemen are interesting meta-wize. They're decent & cheap counters to CPOMB - especially if they pick up wrestle. Given the limited options of the Blitzers, developing them as a Fend team might appeal.
8. With no starting passing game to speak of, the team is likely to play a running (or short passing) game, but without the high ST, high AV players (and blanket S-access) that allow teams to stall for 8 turns. So, running without the (easy) grinding/stalling.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by plasmoid »

PS - I'm quite happy with the fluff match. But I know some will find the GP (i.e. non-S) Blitzers/"Knights" annoying. I'd like to mention that - just like Spubbbba prefers - this isn't just a port of the army. The Blitzers are not Knights. They don't Wear plate mail. And they don't ride warhorses.

They're Bretonnian nobles. They're flashy. They impress the ladies. Perhaps they're even the nobles that weren't quite cut out for warfare.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

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Image

My Reynos de Spaña will play FOT this april in Madrid! Althought as humans as bretonia is not yet allowed in NAF tournaments! :evil:

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by Shteve0 »

plasmoid wrote:Given your generally positive take on Cyanide competence and your well known love for the Khorne team, I can see why you'd be happy to roll with that.
Excuse me? I've actually no idea what you're alluding to. I suspect that beyond a bit of empty posturing, neither do you. :roll:

The honest truth is that the only reason I can imagine wanting to play it is if I were a whfb fanboy. Take away the fluff (from an outsider's point of view a feudal knight team that isn't just the human roster sounds absolutely crap) and I'm not convinced that the roster stands up on its own merit.

But, you know, well done on getting your roster in a computer game, you must be pretty stoked with that. It's not my intention to kill your buzz, I'm just underwhelmed by the news - I don't hate it, I just don't have any interest in it whatsoever. Stack that with dropping 17 other perfectly valid teams and suddenly I find I've no interest in buying or playing a graphically excellent PC version of a game I play regularly on tabletop. Seems like a waste, really.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by Chris »

I've no problem with them as a joke tier 2 team making digs about feudal society.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by spubbbba »

The 3rd edition humans like a lot of the BB models at that time did go down the WHFB route. But the 4th and 5th edition metal human teams went back to a look closer to the 2nd edition style.
However even the 3rd edition plastic humans are Bloodbowl models with Empire style bits added. Those Brettonian designs are WHFB knights and peasants with the odd shoulder pad bunged on.

2nd edition used generic humans to represent Empire, Brettonia, Tilea and even Albion and normal evil or chaotic humans. Norse and Werewolves were the only ones that got their own lists. Brettonia isn’t different enough to warrant their own team, heck in WHFB they are so bland that GW only ever did 1 army list after 6th edition. The difficulty being that they are the empire army with worse infantry and war machines but slightly better cavalry and none of the crazy toys Empire have like pigeon bombs, war alters and clockwork horses.

As to the list, if a new team is going to be added then it should really stand out from others not be a more vanilla human team. Either the stats need to be more varied or some quirky skills given. Grail knights are supposed to be the good equivalent of chaos knights, if any human player cries out for having ST4, AV9 or normally unobtainable skills like regen then it’s these guys. Make them something like 6/4/3/8 regen with S and G access for 110K. Teams with really contrasting players are light on the ground, only Lizardmen and Vampires do that at present really.
Most human coaches go light on the catchers as they are overpriced and all take 4 blitzers so they are already a running team with a bit of bash and a passing option. There were a whole bunch of new skills added in lrb5 many of which fell into the “nice to have but taken later” category. I’d like to see more teams have these as starting skills to further differentiate them. This at least does happen with them having Fend on the linos, Wrestle is one of these skills too but very similar to block in utility making them upgraded linos or discounted blitzers.

It’s disappointing that you get lumbered with this team out of the 8 included in the game and will have to pay individually to use the others. Mind you I will be interested to see how many purchase the Khorne roster for use.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by Chris »

spubbbba wrote:like pigeon bombs
Pidgeon bombs!!

What do they look like, do they still sell them. I'm thinking 3 lions :)
Mind you I will be interested to see how many purchase the Khorne roster for use.
[/quote][/quote]

I'll probably buy every team that has its full star complement.

Apart from Khorne - which doesn't have one!

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by Fassbinder75 »

The team has human linemen with S access, Human Blitzers with Catch and Dauntless and a lineman piece that is probably worse than a Nurgle Rotter. It's not fast, it's not agile, it's not strong, it's not tough. I accept that there will be some nuances that make it slightly different than the human roster but there's nothing there that says 'ooh lets play this team' to me. I accept that being Human and feudal is a narrow remit but to me that's probably a reason to design a side with more creative scope.

Sure the team does have a lot of 'unique' skill decisions, they are gimpy decisions! 7338 GS is much better than 7338 GP. At least at 8338 you could build an ersatz Werewolf, at 7338 you have an ersatz Human Blitzer :(

Given there have been no rules changes for half a decade, trumpeting Wrestle and Fend as 'new' is a bit like telling me a Blackberry is cutting edge technology. Yes, we are stuck with Blackberrys - but how is that a good thing!?!

After all that knocking, I like the intent of your work, if not the product a lot of the time. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. Congratulations on getting the side into the Cyanide client!

TLDR: What Spubbba said.

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Re: Blood Bowl 2, more info

Post by plasmoid »

Hi Shteve0,
Excuse me? I've actually no idea what you're alluding to. I suspect that beyond a bit of empty posturing, neither do you :roll:
Actually it was my sarcastic way of pointing out your own empty posturing: If you claim that you'd prefer something that Cyanide had done over these Brets, then (AFAIK) it completely goes against your usual attitude towards what Cyanide cooks up.

That said, I can totally understand why you'd be disappointed that they're rolling back to 8 races.
And that they didn't do, say, Slann or Pact.

Cheers
Martin

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