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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Regash wrote:
legowarrior wrote:
Video Gaming is much more immediate when it comes to results and information.
Sorry to disagree but the patches are mostly for correcting bugs and errors that wouldn't be in the game if the developer had it tested properly.
But today, everyone has internet and so they don't need to test it. The customer will do that.
Even worse, today they sell you "early access", so you pay for being a tester.

Right now, companies think more like this.


Competitive games like Starcraft, Heroes of the Storm, Warmachine, Dawn of War, Age of Wonders 1, 2 and 3. These are all games that have seen more than they fair share of Balance Patches, of studios trying to get it right. And they do. I can see Blood Bowl going down that route, especially if they want to move to a more competitive game, rather than a beer and pretzel game.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:44 pm 
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legowarrior wrote:
Competitive games like Starcraft, Heroes of the Storm, Warmachine, Dawn of War, Age of Wonders 1, 2 and 3. These are all games that have seen more than they fair share of Balance Patches, of studios trying to get it right. And they do. I can see Blood Bowl going down that route, especially if they want to move to a more competitive game, rather than a beer and pretzel game.

From other studios I could understand (and agree) with that statement, but as this is Cyanide.... :puke: I wouldn't trust them to work out the balance on a set of scales with 2 1lb weights. :roll: And then there was the mess they made of the already unbalanced Dungeonbowl rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:52 pm 
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legowarrior wrote:
Competitive games like Starcraft, Heroes of the Storm, Warmachine, Dawn of War, Age of Wonders 1, 2 and 3. These are all games that have seen more than they fair share of Balance Patches, of studios trying to get it right. And they do. I can see Blood Bowl going down that route, especially if they want to move to a more competitive game, rather than a beer and pretzel game.
There is one big difference, though.
All the games you named were new games.
And of course, every studio that creates a new game, has to do some balancing and therefore release patches.
There are so many things happening in multiplayer titles that can't be forseen, things get exploited and people in general will have ideas no designer would even dare to think of.

But right now, we're talking about a simple conversion, from tabletop to computer, nothing else.
So, in my opinion, stick to the f**king rules, they have been developed and tested over a long period of time.
How old is Blood Bowl now? 20 years? 25?

Cyanide is just making changes to justify a second version of the game.
Who would spend money like this on a graphics and UI update?

This just divides the BB Community into two groups with different rulesets.
And we're already not a big enough community anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:19 am 
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Yeah this game is due for a real overhall. I want it to get the dawn of war treatment or the total war treatment. Just bulldoze it all, keep the fluff but make a make people would want to play. Stop cartering to a crowd that wont play them game anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:56 am 
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legowarrior wrote:
Yeah this game is due for a real overhall. I want it to get the dawn of war treatment or the total war treatment. Just bulldoze it all, keep the fluff but make a make people would want to play. Stop cartering to a crowd that wont play them game anyway.


Are you saying you don't actually like BloodBowl? I don't think there are many that will agree with you on the game needing 'a real overhaul' or 'bulldoze it all'.

I have to say this story campaign mode really interests me; like a one off RPG game.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:34 am 
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Funny, I have a foot in both camps on this. My personal feeling is either you stay as is (for all formats) or you show leadership and revisit first principles, making it a true and complete sequel. Fiddling around with pass block and making human catchers AV8 ( :puke: ) is a lame nonsense - and I've no enthusiasm for a watered down halfway house.

Compromise is a lose-lose scenario. Have balls or go home.

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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:13 am 
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I disagree. Tweaking is fine, bulldozing is not.

Why would you want to bulldoze this fine game?


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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:49 am 
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Me? That's not what I said, I said revisit first principles.

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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:44 pm 
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harvestmouse wrote:
legowarrior wrote:
Yeah this game is due for a real overhall. I want it to get the dawn of war treatment or the total war treatment. Just bulldoze it all, keep the fluff but make a make people would want to play. Stop cartering to a crowd that wont play them game anyway.


Are you saying you don't actually like BloodBowl? I don't think there are many that will agree with you on the game needing 'a real overhaul' or 'bulldoze it all'.

I have to say this story campaign mode really interests me; like a one off RPG game.


The PC version lacks the ability to paint and mod your figures, so the game will never be able to for fill all that desires of people who prefer the table top. It will always miss something, especially for those who see Blood Bowl, and table top in general, as more of a hobby, rather than just a game.

So why bother competing at all with that. Dawn of War didn't, and it's much more fun than table top version, when it comes to the actual game itself (not the things surrounding it).

Heck, even Table Top Fantasy is not staying true to it's roots, and instead using Total War as the engine in question. It is looks unbelievable! Why can't we just admit that what the at least part of the community wants will never be replicated on any other platform, other than table top, and move away from that. Focus on the game aspect of Blood Bowl, rather than the hobby aspect of it. Take advantage of the cool features that are available. Hell, how many people would be amazed if we just took Madden, and grafted Blood Bowl on it, and actually see your players in motion? (okay, I wouldn't, but that's because I don't plan sport games, but I just don't like that box we've put CRP in).


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:33 pm 
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Cyanide had that option. They chose to make a TT representation.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:36 pm 
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legowarrior wrote:
Focus on the game aspect of Blood Bowl, rather than the hobby aspect of it.
I might be wrong but aren't RULES the game aspect of Blood Bowl?
Miniatures, conversions and painting sure are not.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:36 pm 
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dode74 wrote:
Cyanide had that option. They chose to make a TT representation.


Yeah their realtime version was horrendous.

Had they made a Mutant League football style Madden rip off using Bloodbowl's IP then I think it could have been a lot of fun and might have actually been more successful if done well. It would have appealed to both fans of BB and sports games. Of course they would have had to balance the rules themselves which would have been tricky with the diversity of races.

The blood aspect would have been difficult as well since you'd need a way for players to die and be injured without destroying the whole team. Protecting key players is a lot trickier in a realtime game.

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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:10 pm 
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Chaos League was a lot of fun, tbh. It's the fact that they tried to make the TT game which caused them problems. If they'd gone the DoW route and created a "Blood Bowl based" game then I agree it could have worked well. That said, I do play and enjoy the game we have and am glad they made it, I just wish they had made it better.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:13 pm 
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legowarrior wrote:
The PC version lacks the ability to paint and mod your figures, so the game will never be able to for fill all that desires of people who prefer the table top. It will always miss something, especially for those who see Blood Bowl, and table top in general, as more of a hobby, rather than just a game.


Is this true? I was under the impression if you had the skills you could mod the players in the BB game. From a personal point of view. I was a massive lead collector. From the age of 7 up to around 4 years ago I collected figures and painted them to a high level. Even after I started playing FUMBBL, I was still motivated in painting figures due to using them on portraits on FUMBBL. I felt and I guess still do, that actual figure player portraits should be (or are better as) official figures or pictures.

Sadly, that was taken away. I didn't think it would affect me much, but it must have. For some reason I have totally lost interest in painting figures and instead I paint icons for Java clients. This appears to have replaced my interest in painting totally. In short PC figure painting has replaced real figure painting. I can also model figures how I want them to be.

legowarrior wrote:
So why bother competing at all with that. Dawn of War didn't, and it's much more fun than table top version, when it comes to the actual game itself (not the things surrounding it).


Dawn of War isn't Warhammer 40k, it's using the Warhammer 40k universe/IP. It's not pretending to be the TT game. So, using that as an example and what you say further on......... is that you want to replace the game with an RTS? It's no longer BB then, it's a game based in the BB universe/on the IP. Why would the community here want that? Why would Cyanide want that after the last RTS version was poorly received and was not popular?

legowarrior wrote:
Heck, even Table Top Fantasy is not staying true to it's roots, and instead using Total War as the engine in question. It is looks unbelievable!


Yes it does, but again this isn't Warhammer Fantasy Battle. It's a game based in the Warhammer universe. I too am excited by Total War; and in a way it may replace WFB, due to that going off on some sort of acid trip. But the game it is not, it's not even pretending to be the game.

legowarrior wrote:
Why can't we just admit that what the at least part of the community wants will never be replicated on any other platform, other than table top, and move away from that.


Because what assurances do we have that they'll be interested in any other type of game based in the BB world? I'm pretty sure (based on BB 1) that the most interest you can get from the game is with a game that plays like the TT game. It's a popular format, moving away from that (I'm guessing you're hinting at RTS) isn't what people want at all, certainly not here.

Would it be popular? Yeah maybe. Would it be popular with 'the community' (community being BB players) I really don't think so. I think you'd be looking at a younger and less permanent player base. I think you're barking up the wrong tree, I really do. Especially for here. I also think you'd have a lot less interest in buying add-ons like extra teams. RTS teams would play much more a like than TBS teams. Also as the community is used to different teams, they'll want to collect them for the computer game. It's a good long term money making strategy (as long as the playerbase feel ok forking out the cash).

legowarrior wrote:
(okay, I wouldn't, but that's because I don't plan sport games, but I just don't like that box we've put CRP in).


What box we've put what in? I get the feeling that you were new with CRP. It's been a couple of years since I last ran across you, and certainly then I think you lacked experience and knowledge of the game. And certainly on how to handle the community. Has that changed?

My conclusion is that I think and they know that keeping to BB is the best way of making a Turn Based game to work. However they feel they need to pump it up a bit, and/or to call it BB2 they need to change somethings. Aka the CRP+ stuff, and new rosters. So they're tweaking, which in principle maybe a good idea. bulldozing the game, with the knowledge (or lack of) they have, would in my opinion be suicide.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional deviations from CRP seen in BB2 trailer
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:46 am 
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Anyone seen the Dark Elf Gameplay Trailer?

Around 1:28 you see Pass Block also missing on Eldril Sidewinders card.
Doesn't make me feel to good about the "Pass Block wasn't implemented yet"-theory.
Especially with this statement from Cyanide on their Facebook page:
Cyanide on Facebook wrote:
Now the game is done and currently going through the certification process with Sony and Microsoft
Since this was posted on July 10th, this means "Byebye Pass Block" for all who want to play BB2, I guess.


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