MBBL2 Round 3

[sean newboy]

Yep wasnt thinking, thot the ag was a double but thats the one that isnt.

[Acerak]

Current, MBBL3, my opinion:

(Current) 16 UNDER SCRUTINY: The opposing team may not Foul or use players equipped with Secret Weapons for this match.

(MBBL3) 16 UNDER SCRUTINY: The opposing team may not use players equipped with Secret Weapons for this match. In addition, the opposing team is under the Referee's eye for the entire match and it will not move to your team even if you foul.

(my opinion): The MBBL3 change is too far over the top. Contrary to what you said, Tom, that IS a big change, and you created a condition in which a combined effect was too far over the top.

(Current) 23 BIASED REFEREE: The opposing team count as being under the eyes of the referee for the whole match (i.e. all fouls will be spotted on a 4+).

(MBBL3) 23 BIASED REFEREE: The referee has it out for the other team. The other team may not foul for the entire match.

Sorry - again, too strong! Granted, the current Biased Referee result needs to be changed a bit so it doesn't conflict with Under Scrutiny. But this ain't the answer. A 4+ foul is good enough as a limitation, IMO.

(Current) 42 GRUDGE MATCH: You may take any number of Foul actions per turn for this match. However you may not foul the same player more than once per team turn.

(MBBL3)42 GRUDGE MATCH: You may take any number of Foul actions per turn for this match. However you may not foul the same player more than once per team turn. D3 random players on your team get the Dirty Player skill for this match.

Again, way too much. I grant that the current event isn't terribly useful if you don't get the ref, but if there's some way around this, it might be this one:

GRUDGE MATCH: Your players are fired up after hearing some badmouthing from the other team. D3 random players on your team are so incensed that they get the Dirty Player skill for this match.

Now - sure, you can't foul an unlimited number of times. But you have enough players to make a few of them expendable, because they'll foul pretty well.

-Chet

[Acerak]

Yes you hit a nerve. I'm one of those folks that think that the restrictions to fouling were too great. Personally I LOVE the Smeborg proposal for changing fouling which was as follows:

Possibility to add some punch back to fouling (which got hammered in BB2k1) consider the following: add back that Mighty Blow, Claw, and Razor Sharp Fangs can be used and change the ejection base to the following: Fouling with Dirty Player gives NO bonus to armour or injury anymore but is always a 6+ for the Referee roll (even under the eye), normal fouling is a 5+ ref roll base, fouling with any av/inj mods like MB, Claw, or RSF (even if you have Dirty Player) is a 4+ ref roll base. If you want to leave the IGEMOY system in the game have it add +1 to the referee roll for anything but a Dirty Player foul w/o av/inj mod skills. The other kicker to consider is to allow Dirty Player to be able to assist a foul even in an opponent TZ (ie make Dirty Player the flip side of the Guard skill on blocking). Several leagues have used this system for years. These changes and still not allowing SPPs for fouling would give fouling a little more punch without a ton of rules clutter or the return of the Dirty Player being the player on the team with the most SPPs.

I'm currently actively supporting this for a good way to change fouling to where its a part of the game again ... other than the Pixie team I haven't seen virtually any boots in the MBBL2 or the MBBL. I agree with a little choking back of fouling rules from 3rd but they seem to have been wiped out.

No one has yet shot this bear dead, so allow me. This is a terrible idea for one key reason: injuries will belong entirely to Strength-based teams. There won't be any way to take that star Orc Blitzer out of the game without Claw, RSC, or Mighty Blow.

Bad, bad, bad idea.

-Chet

[Dangerous Dave]

OK its half time of 200 Proof (Spirit) and Dangerous Dorks (Norse)

Well the Norse received and decided that the best form of attack was to try and pummel as many of the opposition as possible - Spirits have a lot of av 7 and not too much Block. Although a blitzer frenzied a Ghost into the crowd on the first turn and the crowd promptly killed him! (who's afraid of Ghosts now!) - that was it for the half. 2 casualties were scored by the Spirit and following an inaccurate pass that scattered away from the Norse, the Spirits pulled off an amazing pass play with no reroll - Block, GFI, pick up, pass, catch, blitz and GFI. The Norse had 2 attempts to score at the end and fluffed both......

So its 1-0 to the Spirit who are to receive. I have been onto the Dwarf Coaches and blagged some Dwarf Spirits for a half-time gee up. So a lot of the Norse are on the line of scrimmage - ready to pound some skulls..... I have also been onto the fans to try and make sure that the Spirit fans do not throw any more rocks at my team (2 in 2 kick offs!).

The chanting is still going on as we line up.... Kill, Kill, Drink, Drink, Kill...

Dave

[Pink Horror]

Hello to everyone on talkbloodbowl!

Rat Ogre Skills

The agility might seem like a missed opportunity to some of you, but those big rats cost you games. I'd love to play against a team that puts the ball in a Wild Animal's hands. Your more prone to annoy yourself than annoy your opponent. There's two good skills for reducing rat ogre turnovers: piling on and block. With piling on, your on the ground so you don't have to block, and everyone knows how block helps.

Fimir

My Fimir are working over a skaven team now. I think they'll get a taste of their own medicine soon. I'm close to a meeting with the Albion squad. Maybe, when the time comes, I'll just concede before that game starts.

Fouling

Ha ha, and Undead team crippled by fouling! Sweet! Good rules adjustments, Tom! I hope they're nice and soft for whenever I have to meet them. In 3rd edition, card combos could be much worse than our current handicap combos. People raised on fouling like Eric and I are unlikely to give the top team in the division any sympathy.



Pink Horror

[GalakStarscraper]

PH, welcome and please play nice here ... please.

Okay that's all I'll say there.

As for the Albions ... well they are going to get a serious makeover for Season 3. The Knight of Albion are going to drop to 0-2 allowed and the Men-At-Arms are going to have AV 8. This should finally fix the Albion team which even I have to admit is too far on the too good side. They could win it all again ... but personally my money is on the leading Khemri team, the Animal House to go home with the top prize.

Galak

[Pink Horror]

How can the MBBL2's version of Biased Referee be too strong? It's weaker the official version of Under Scrutiny. If Tom's Biased Referee is too strong, your Under Scrutiny is way too strong.

To both of you, I must say that I think each handicap roll should have only one game effect. Compound effects like 'dirty players + multiple fouls' or 'no weapons + no fouls' don't seem necessary.



Pink Horror

[Dangerous Dave]

I'm getting very frustrated in my R3 MBBL2 game. My Norse v Brian's Spirit team. He was 1-0 up at the half.... I am trying to batter my way to the win... despite having more skills Block, Dodge, MB Troll, Piling On Blitzer and everyone else of course with Block - my opponent has 2 cas - I have none. Having said that out of 4 or 5 blocks on his Iron Man (I am trying not to hit him but fairly obviously he is normally in the way) I have killed him twice - Just wish I could get a better ratio on his other players.....

Its still 1-0 and 9 v 9.... I need a good turn and I'm in to the ball carrier..... Come on armour and injury rolls buck up!



Dave

[Dangerous Dave]

Don't you just hate waiting for that file to come back sometimes.....

My Norse v Brian's Spirit team.

Brian has been moving from one side of the pitch to the other largely stalling since he is up 1-0. Basically he has been HGing and then dodging and GFIing his players. I have managed to use up all his rerolls but his moves are not breaking down early. He moved out one of his Banshees into the open - blitz stunned .... 2 turns later he was fouled and KO'd . His other Banshee (carrying the ball) eventually made it within 8 squares of the end zone. By this time pressure was mounting and I have KO'd several players. So he had to go for the TD. He managed his Ethereal roll (like leap) but failed his dodge (Yo! - put the Tackle player in the right place!) and promptly KO'd his Banshee!

3 turns to score with the ball deep in my half. My thrower picks up and moves to pass to an open receiver. I try to GFI twice to go from short to quick.... and promptly fail the first GFI... a reroll succeeds and I decide to throw from there... inaccurate and then fumbled

Brian dodges to one die blitz my (Blodge) thrower - push back and leaves his player between my thrower and the ball. There wasn't much else he could do.

I move my receiver downfield, blitz the opponent away pick up and this time make the pass... and catch it! - that's my first SPP all game!

So I have one turn left. The ball carrier is all on his own and needs to make 1 GFI roll to get to the End Zone. If Brian is very lucky he may be able to Blitz the carrier - but this is unlikely - he needs to make a leap roll with ag2 (or poss ag3 - not sure if its a Ghost or Spectre), dodge and GFI twice with no rerolls.

I have no rerolls and assuming I still have the ball when the file comes back, need to make a GFI roll to equalise and send the match into O/T...... don't you just hate the tension of waiting for that file and the last turn rolls to score!



Dave

[Deathwing]

Heh! I find it worse when you're trying to hold out. You've done all you can, and your opponent needs a string of rolls to score the unlikely looking TD for the win..send the file off, cross your fingers and wait...

[martynq]

It's just past halftime in my Division A match, my high elves versus another khemri side. The score is 1-1 with only 1 casualty for the khemris (a BH lineelf). Unfortunately, the khemris are receiving in the second half, though I did just manage to KO one of the tomb guardians in my first turn of this half.

It's a bit close to call at this point... though it would be nice if this elf side won a match this season!

Martyn

[Dangerous Dave]

Yes!

I managed to equalise so my Norse are level with Brian's Spirit team and we go into O/T. Maybe just maybe the dice have changed. Brian didn't get either of his Banshees back (very powerful players) and I got both my KO'd players back. Its his 8 v my 14... and I won the toss. So unless there is a pitch invasion I should... say should win this one!



Dave

[sean newboy]

Go Dave. Right now in the Fists vs Bashers its 2-1 for the bashers the ball was kicked off to the Fists middle of the 2nd. Backstabber went in and knocked the ball loose and stunned the Fist passer, who knows what will happen next.

[martynq]

Things are *really* hotting up in the second half of the High Elves vs the Khemri. Bob's Khemri received and the elves managed to hold them off until just over halfway through the half when they managed to knock over the tomb guardian ball carrier. An elven dragon warrior dodged his way into a mummy's tackle zone to retrieve the ball, accurately passed to one of the lion warriors who only needed to catch and dodge away to be in the clear. This was the point at which the khemri's skeleton catcher managed to intercept despite having AG2 and being in 2 tackle zones. So although the khemri are now on the back foot, they still have the ball.

It could still go either way, though the next to score will probably win. (Current score 1-1)

Martyn

[Dangerous Dave]

Well my match against Brian's Spirit team has finished.. and the Norse got a come from behind victory.

With a 3 man advantage (11 v 8 ), my oppo wiht no re-rolls, receiving and with both Banshees failing their KO rolls at the start of the O/T... it should have been easy.

However, far from it. It started well with the Stone Troll KO'ing a Ghost on the first block. However, double skulls quickly followed which burnt up the Leader reroll. trying to frenzy a Spectre off the pitch failed as I got him down on the first block. However I picked up the ball and settled into a loose cage.

Brian succeeded on a one dice blitz and a dodge - and set up a defensive line.

Stone Troll rolls a 1 for his RS roll (at 2+) and is therefore out of position. Blitz a ghost, pile on and faile to break the av 7 armour. Move the players up to take on the oppo - only 1 (a wraith) has any skills (Block and Guard).

A one die blitz KOs a Norse lino and the Piled on blitzer is fouled stunned.

I get one Spectre down prone, roll 2 blocks against the only oppo with block and a skull on a 1 die block.

1 die block push, a 2 die stunned, my blitzer is successfully chilled (prone to stunned) - a way is open to my ball carrying Blodge thrower who is powed and stunned on a 2 die block. The ball is knocked out of bounds and comes in field within reach of a Ghost. Another of the Norse is chilled (prone to stunned). Needing 5+ to pickup - he fails but it scatters away from my players.

I now have 6 standing players (4 stunned) v 7 standing opponents. Troll blitzes and pushes back one of the 2 players with TZs on the ball. I block the other one prone. I push back another player on a 2 die block and manage to pickup the ball.

My blitzer is chilled, the ball carrier blitzed and pushed back - 4 players from the Spirit team surround him. A couple of other chills fail (at last I can stand them up!) and a dodge fails... prone again.

Another lot of pushes on 2 die block (75% chance of down!) - Troll only gets prone.. again and a one die blitz results in a push. This leave 2 players next to ball carrier.. who dodges to hand off to an open receiver, falls over and is stunned. Ball comes back to where he dodges from - ie 2 TZs - only 1 other place would give 1 TZ.

Brian gambles and pows a player onto the ball hoping for a good scatter. Fortunately it comes back on my side but is still ont he floor. A push back blitz leaves the ball with one TZ - but the pick up failed - the ball bounces on my side.

I push back the one oppo next to the ball and blitz and stun a player covering my catcher. My sure hands thrower manages to pick up the ball and hand off to my catcher... who needs his catch skill to catch it. Yo! The catcher legs it into the distance and cannot be caught.

This was a tough game - although a lot of the Spirit players are not that tough the Banshees are awesome 8247, HG, Ethereal (like leap but failure is not a t/o - like Stand Firm) and dodge as a first skill. The Chill ability is very powerful since it is a free move - so anyone prone is often stunned.... so nearly 3 complete halves of Bloodbowl... and no casualties for me.... roll 1 on both winnings and FF Oh well not much team development that game!


Dave