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 Post subject: How do bashy teams beat lizards before they can kill them?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:29 am
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I understand that at higher TV lizards aren't so hot because you can just kill the Saurus.

But I literally have no idea how to beat them at lower TVs when AV9 is generally pretty safe and you haven't got massive amounts of guard yet.

They're just so much stronger than everyone else, that it seems almost mathematically impossible to block your way to victory.

Orcs and Nurgle get four Str 4 and a Str 5, Chaos gets four Str 4 (assuming you skip the cow).

Lizards however get six Str 4 and a Str 5, meaning they can easily put a couple of Str 4 guys on your Str 3 guys. If you want your Str3 guys to get a two die block, they each need two assists. Meanwhile, you still need assists for your Str4 guys and several more people to ensure you keep a tight cage as the lizards are fast enough to attack the back and sides of the cage. I find I don't have anywhere near enough men to do all this.

Trying to advance the cage is very hard as they have the strength to form a logjam at the front of the cage while marking the sides or back with Str4 guys that you can't afford to waste three guys on blocking.

Running plays are also off the table as they're faster than you and generally have a bunch of skinks idling in the back, waiting to play safety.

Skinks are often listed as a weakness for this team, but I find that the Saurus + Kroxigor are so strong that they can generally bully my teams and prevent them getting many shots at the skinks. And of course, a skink is just as good as anyone else at providing assists (at least until other teams mass guard), but much more mobile.

What am I missing about beating this team? Should I just be sticking sacrificial lineman on as many of the Saurus as possible and making a mad dash for the endzone with everyone else, rather than trying to block my way forward in a controlled advance?


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 Post subject: Re: How do bashy teams beat lizards before they can kill the
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:01 am 
Experienced
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When facing an opponent gage their strength and their weakness, fight against their weakness and not their strength.

Depending on the team you are playing, why go head to head against the lizzies strength? Why not fight against their weakness?

On offence I would try and exploit their flank and try to attack the skinks, you mention that they are great cover defenders but they still need support to get a 1 dice block let alone a 2 dice block. Having a runner with a buddy or 2 can definately help the situation. especially if they are putting TZ on your players and the next turn you can bash them back.

Also remember with skinks they even if you dont have block it can be worth while taking a 'both players down' result and using their av7 and stunty to swing the injury odds in your favour.

All of the lizzies str can be daunting but most teams can work around them especially if you start kicking the skinks off the field because they wont be able to handle the ball and scoring starts to come easily.


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 Post subject: Re: How do bashy teams beat lizards before they can kill the
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:18 am 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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At low TV? There Sauri will not have block and will turnover quickly.

Your bashy team will have block. Don't fight there sauri but go after the skinks. Get them of the field and you will win the game.


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 Post subject: Re: How do bashy teams beat lizards before they can kill the
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:51 am 
Raspberry Mage
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Play dwarves, lizzy coaches love that :roll:
But yeah, the lack of defensive skills on the saurus means they turn over quickly and spend a lot of time out of position (because they are on the floor). But if you really want to annoy a lizzy coach its best to go for the skinks, frenzy push them into the crowd, tackle them e.t.c Without them the lizardmen lose all ball control.


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 Post subject: Re: How do bashy teams beat lizards before they can kill the
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:18 pm 
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I played one game with lizards and hated it. My saurus spent most the game on the floor.

Double down will haunt you if you lack the block skill, even at high strength. If you're a ST3 team an important part of blocking the saurus is obviously any players you have that have the block skill. In that case a single dice block is essentially a 2+, and while if you roll enough of them you're going to roll skulls obviously, it's much less risky than if you didn't have the skill and means you only need one assist against a ST4 player.

Again, it does carry more risk but if you're always searching for a two dice block at every turn you're going to commit more players than you would if you were willing to throw a one dicer here and there.

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 Post subject: Re: How do bashy teams beat lizards before they can kill the
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:39 am 
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Use of Block and desperation markings are the way to do it, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: How do bashy teams beat lizards before they can kill the
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:05 am 
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Lizards are very hot and cold. Either they are awesome unstoppable machines, or utterly useless. Its the lack of skills and AG3 that often end up hurting them.

So with Orcs, for example, I'll try to use ensure that the Saurus are marked in such a way that a couple of blitzers are free to go skink hunting (especially the tackle/mighty blow ones :)). Get rid of the skinks and you ought to be able to win. Of course, if they get lucky and break your Av9 too then you may stuggle. Get rid of a Saurus or two and you ought to dominate.

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