Looking for advice for 2nd human thrower 1st skillup.

[Stallard]

Hey there Sportsfans,

Just wondering what to take for my 2nd thrower on my human team. I rolled a 12 for his first skillup.

I'm just wondering whether to take the strength up, or to take something like strong arm?

I do intend to have him be more of a running thrower, as my first thrower has: Strong arm, accurate, NOS.

This would also be the second time I've rolled a STR up for my human team, and i'm sitting at a TV of 2.51 million.

(this is also the first team I've ever played.)

[Pug]

take the ST....makes him a thrower and an awesome sweeper at the rear if needed!

[Ulthuan_Express]

If you've already got a Strong Arm, Accurate power bomber, then take the strength. Give him Block after, then think about NoS/Dump Off.

[dsavillian]

+1 to the STR, especially if you want to make him the runner. 4ST ball carriers are the bomb-diggity, IMO.

If you are worried about the TV bloat from a +STR piece that doesn't do much hitting, I'd still take it and look to trim TV from elsewhere on your roster instead.

[Smurf]

Take strong arm. IMO ST4 on such a player is nice but how does a Thrower function in a team whose only true ability is to throw a ball. ST4 is tempting but what are the rest of the team doing?

[Stallard]

Hey there Dave, good to see a familiar face.

I really don't care about TV at the moment, I'd have to sack good functioning parts of my team to lower it,
there really isn't much fat I can trim that would make it worthwhile. (there really isn't a lot i can buy either)

Thanks everyone for the input.

[DoubleSkulls]

Take the strength. Humans need it. Get him to score a few more TDs and get Block, then he's a great sweeper since he can blitz the opposition, and has sure hands to recover the ball.

[Hitonagashi]

Ball runner + St + Sure hands + Block + (maybe dodge) = almost unstoppable.

You've got the other catcher for the 2 turn scores, he's a reliable ball carrier and pretty much immune to pesky leaping elves due to ST4.

[spubbbba]

Human Throwers are miss-named, they should be called runners as passing with AG3 throwers and receivers is a risky prospect. I’d avoid throwing the ball as much as possible unless it is in desperation or a safe 1spp pass.

I really like human throwers and think they are probably the best value in a human team as both catchers and blitzers are over priced.

Strong Arm is a complete waste of a double and taking it over ST4 on a human thrower is a crime against nuffle that will condemn you to a season of skulls and 1’s. With ST4, block and sure hands he’s one hell of a ball carrier and should be about as safe as you can get in a cage with a couple of guard corners (though dodge would be nice as 3rd skill too).
Once he gets block he’s a great player when not holding the ball too so is useful all game rather than only when doing a short pass or more and failing by 1, the extra 20K is well worth it.

Frankly the only passing skills I’d take on throwers are accurate and maybe leader to save some TV. I like to give throwers skills like tackle, strip ball and sometimes kick as it frees up your blitzers to take strength skills like guard, mighty blow, stand firm and piling on. Doubles choices should be dodge or guard.

Safe Throw, Dump off and Nerves of Steel are really not worth taking for the TV unless you are on at least the 4th skill.

[Stallard]

*nods* I've looked at the options and it seems that having a fighty thrower would be a definite asset.

Against grind teams, i'll pull out my long bomb artist, and make some good passing plays.

Against agility teams (let nuffle grace this league with some smelly elves next season!), i'll pull out my goon thrower, cage him up and march him down the pitch.

having a STR up for my goon thrower just makes it harder for an agility team to get the ball away from him, especially with sure hands.

Having a str 3 spoiler throw down a block against the goon thrower in a cage wouldn't be the most advantageous thing, most of the time it would be two dice against and he'd have to roll some sort of pow for both. Block is something i can see him getting, dodge if he gets even luckier.

Weirder things have happened, i once blitzed a dwarf ball carrier into the crowd with a str 2 catcher in the backfield, rolled double skulls, re-rolled double true pow, then the ball was thrown in, twice, sent most of the way down the pitch, only for my other catcher to get the ball, run into range of the other end zone, be blitzed, thrown into a pit trap and then zotted with a wizard for him to be dragged off the pitch...kicking and screaming i might add. It wasn't a good day for the Stone Cutters.

[Stallard]

Human Throwers are miss-named, they should be called runners as passing with AG3 throwers and receivers is a risky prospect. I’d avoid throwing the ball as much as possible unless it is in desperation or a safe 1spp pass.

I really like human throwers and think they are probably the best value in a human team as both catchers and blitzers are over priced.

Strong Arm is a complete waste of a double and taking it over ST4 on a human thrower is a crime against nuffle that will condemn you to a season of skulls and 1’s. With ST4, block and sure hands he’s one hell of a ball carrier and should be about as safe as you can get in a cage with a couple of guard corners (though dodge would be nice as 3rd skill too).
Once he gets block he’s a great player when not holding the ball too so is useful all game rather than only when doing a short pass or more and failing by 1, the extra 20K is well worth it.

Frankly the only passing skills I’d take on throwers are accurate and maybe leader to save some TV. I like to give throwers skills like tackle, strip ball and sometimes kick as it frees up your blitzers to take strength skills like guard, mighty blow, stand firm and piling on. Doubles choices should be dodge or guard.

Safe Throw, Dump off and Nerves of Steel are really not worth taking for the TV unless you are on at least the 4th skill.

Maybe i'm dumb, or maybe nuffle just likes me (or both?), but most of the time, i can throw a long bomb with my strong arm + accurate thrower and get it into the air for an accurate pass.

That being said, a short pass to a catcher, who runs it to another catcher 8 spaces away for the handoff sure looks like poetry in motion if the dice cooperate. Got the ball from my TD line to the opposition's TD line in one turn when a Centaur's GFI went awry.

Safe throw......its better with agility....I'd probably take it as a top off skill. Dump off would be good for some flea flicker action. Nerves of steel either doesn't do anything, or saves your bacon. One game i had against an evenly matched necromantic team had me backed up against the sidelines with my thrower after a few turn overs and ball bounces. I decided to throw it to an open square half way down the pitch for my catcher to pick up on the next turn. NOS made it happen, took my opponent by surprise and took his team completely out of position.

Dunno what you have against human blitzers and catchers, they're worth every overpriced penny in my books. Catchers get blodge on their first skillup, blitzers get movement 7 and strength access.

Having 4 catchers means a grind team has that much more to deal with on the backfield.

Having 4 blitzers and an Ogre means some good grinding action against agi teams.

For me, i got every positional i could get my filthy hands on, seems to have worked out so far.

[spubbbba]

Human Blitzers are great and having 4 is a must, they are too expensive though (should be 80K) especially when compared to their Orc counterpart. Losing them at high TV makes life very tough as they can take an age to replace, losing 2 or 1 and an Ogre in the same game can effectively end your season. Catchers suck, I’d never take for and usually only bother with 1 or 2 max. They cost too much (should be 60K), die really easily and are not very good at catching, they also tend to hog spp’s.

Passing with humans is always a risky manoeuvre and something you should avoid where possible, you are also unlikely to do it that often. That’s why I suggest avoiding the passing skills as they only make you slightly more likely to succeed at something you will do rarely. Human linemen tend to have short lives and skill up slowly unless you get lucky or make an effort to give them spp’s so you can lack useful skills like tackle, strip ball and kick. As I said earlier Blitzers should focus on the strength skills first so that is why I like to give these to Throwers.

Catchers do have a place on the team as their speed and mobility are great for scoring quickly when you need to and giving assists. Often the danger of a pass can be more effective than the pass itself and having a catcher can cause the other team to spread out which helps the human team use their speed to break through the defence or switch to another side.

[Hitonagashi]

That being said, a short pass to a catcher, who runs it to another catcher 8 spaces away for the handoff sure looks like poetry in motion if the dice cooperate. Got the ball from my TD line to the opposition's TD line in one turn when a Centaur's GFI went awry.

That's what we mean by unreliable. There's about a 10% chance of failing a 3+ with a rr, so given your example

3+ pickup with reroll (90% chance of succeeding), 2+ pass with reroll(86% chance), 3+ catch with reroll(75% chance), 3+ catch with reroll(63% chance). If you drop it at any of those steps, the ball is hanging around, and can be grabbed...so you've got a 40% chance of letting him back into the drive. Now let's say instead, you stop at the 3+ pickup(90% chance) and then use the catchers to screen the thrower and stop the ball from getting loose, you can then manage the clock on your offense.

It's the same with a passing game. Most passing games I see with humans use 3+ pass 3+ catch...which has a 75% chance of succeeding. Looking at it the other way, 1 in every 4 games, you'll probably lose/draw because you fluff a bad catch. Compare this to a backfield pickup and run, which gives you probably 2 turns to grab the ball and if you can avoid dodges with your ball carrier and manage to play the positional game well enough to run it in, gives you a 95%+ chance of scoring! (this assumes perfect play in the passing game, and perfect play in the running game).

A 3+ with a reroll is *not* reliable. You wouldn't repeatedly go for it in a blizzard unless it was an emergency, why would you take the same chance on your offense with your ball carrier?


[edit] That said..I don't know the specific circumstances of the game! If it was turn 15 to win, it's a great option to have! I was just using your play as an example where there were a lot of rolls that looked fair enough, but taken as a whole had a rather large potential to mess up .[/edit]

[dboeren]

I've got a ST4 Thrower on my Human team (playing the XBox version) and he's one of my most useful players.

He makes a great runner, throws fairly well with Accurate (I never attempt anything longer than a Short Pass), and hits well too. ST4 makes him harder for opponents to bring down so I'm more likely to keep the ball even if they find a way past me defenders.

When we suffer a turnover and some enemy player nabs the ball and finds a way past my line, he's usually in the back ready to hit them with a 2 die block without needing assistance AND has Sure Hands to pick the ball back up again. I think that's what other people were referring to as being a "sweeper".

In his most recent skill up I gave him Dump Off which further enhances his ability as a running. Strong, hard to bring down, even if you do there's no guarantee you'll knock the ball loose. Don't underestimate the ability for a ball carrier to Blitz his own way out of trouble if nobody else is available to assist him either.

[Stallard]

Well, I wrote this long ass message about how you dont need %95 to win, or that you dont need to stack the odds so much in your favor.

Well, i wrote it twice since the board timed out on me.

I really don't know what to say, People look at me like I'm from the short bus when i throw a long bomb for the TD and it keeps on working, game after game, throw after throw. They tear their beards and gnash their teeth. They curse the gods for bringing them such misfortune.

They rue the day they let the ball get into my throwers hands and it scores a touchdown.

On my end of things, i get the living snot beat out of my guys every match, and they survive, and it irritates the hell out of the grind players.

So i really dont know what to say.

Once i dodged into three tackle zones, picked the ball up, dodged away and scored. I think the guy wanted to slap me.

So yeah, i really cant argue with the odds. But for some reason I do crazy things and they work, not all the time, but frequently.

I just dont know what to say.