Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by DrDeath »

besters wrote:An end of tournament slump not helped by forgetting I had a wizard in games 4 and 5 and the contest with Itchen in game 6 to see who could fail most dodge and pick up rolls! :lol:
Well played in those Besters, that's a good effort. On the other hand it should be said your team were helped enormously by fielding 12 Amazons for the entire first half drive against my Skaven, who as a result were reduced to 7-8 players for the second half and were knackered for Game 4. Btw you assured me the NAF rule in that situation was to randomly select one player and remove it to the reserves box (which in the last turn of the first half meant nothing, and was no penalty whatsoever). For future reference that isn’t true. The NAF rules pack states:

‘If there are 12 players on the pitch, you can remove one randomly, choose one to remove, or restart the drive/game. You decide!’

Given the large impact in a situation like that I think a restart would be fairest really, perhaps with 2 minute turns on a clock as it was the last game of the day? However I do respect and understand Robin’s decision that we had to continue as we only had the hall till 6.30pm (I assume the commish is the ‘You’!).

I hope the above doesn’t sound like sour grapes, these things do happen (although of course I can only help but wonder though what would have happened, had game 3 been played properly, or there had been any kind of penalty offered for the 12 man infringement...). Of course it’s only a silly game after all, most of it was great fun and I accept mistakes do happen. We just need to try and avoid this happening again, particularly when it affects everyone around the top of the table. Personally I’m quite new to tabletop and will certainly be counting my opponents players too from now on!

The other reason I wanted to post is that in my opinion this also cost Itchen the title. He beat Besters in the last game, ended with the same record, and only lost out on marginal ‘strength of schedule’ points. I accept it was an honest mistake by Besters, but it was his primary responsibility to field the correct number of players in game 3 so he was rather fortunate not to be docked ‘strength of schedule’ points for that big infringement (it was surely a weaker schedule as a result)?

To close on a brighter note I must tell everyone of a really outstanding piece of sportsmanship. In game 2, my opponent was coasting to a 2-1 win down one wing at the end of the 2nd half. One of my gutters somehow managed to sneak in and get a lucky, one die pow blitz (needed a pow). That would have been meaningless if the ball had scattered onto the pitch anyway, which I said it had. But my opponent corrected me that it had scattered into the crowd, knowing full well that other gutters were well placed to run off with whatever throw in and win 2-1 – which they promptly did. That opponent happened to be Itchen, and had he kept quiet on that he would again have won the title on the final standings. What a sportsman – in my opinion he deserved the title on both counts! Would have made a nice story too, having got the Wooden Spoon last year :) Opponents like that make the game a pleasure to play.

Big thank you once again to Block and the other Admins too for all their hard work, particularly on a progression-style tournament which is a lot more complicated to run. Without their selfless hard work there isn’t even a competition, well done guys! I’m sure there will be more players next time out, many of us are middle-aged family guys so I’m sure a lot of coaches were off for Bank-holiday weekends… Please put me down for the Trophy – 95% sure I can make it;)

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by besters »

I apologised at the time, it wasn't deliberate and certainly wasn't the reason you were players down that was a vicious tackle/mighty blow blitzer and phenonomally good dice that I had for the first four games.

I've seen this situation before a number of times and the solution used is the normal and usually the only feasible one.

I will apologise again, and leave it at that.

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by bobafettsmum »

DrDeath wrote:I hope the above doesn’t sound like sour grapes
Sorry bud, but it does.

It's both players responsibility to adhere to the rules including the number of players.
Besters may have had an unfair advantage but you are as much to blame as he is.
That may sound harsh but I think it's fair.

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by Itchen Masack »

Awesome weekend once again, do like that venue :) ofc big thanks to Robin for hosting and Tom etc for helping. Now let's have a chat about docking Besters some strength of schedule points... :-p

Kind words DrDeath ty, although when starting to read that I'd assumed the 'sportsmanship' was giving you the 5+ then POW chance in the first place :-D

Had really good games against friendly oponents, and match 6 was especially tense. Rolling snakes with the ballcarrier 2 turns in a row was frustrating, but it turned out to be the right thing to do as it meant Besters no longer had time to equalise lol

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by Maverick »

Just like to add my thanks to Robin and Tom, great tournament and exceedingly well run especially with all the progression shenanigans required between rounds,
Thanks to vmcat for bringing the between rounds entertainment and a big thank you to all my opponents, 6 great games that were a pleasure to play.

Will hopefully be back again next year :)

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by Joemanji »

Didn't Jim make the same slip in another game too?

When I was in Canada this happened and the offending party conceded the game on the spot. I guess there are different interpretations!

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by besters »

Hi Joe,

I think I have done this three times in 500 + games and I usually count both teams, don't know what happened here.

I have seen and heard it happen to others, never heard of someone resigning the game before though. Third game hot and tired I guess I just missed it.

Obviously so did my opponent.

My understanding was we followed the accepted ruling.

Jim

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by Blocknroll »

I can understand Dr Death's frustrations as he was in with a great shot of winning this tournament, imo he's one of the best coaches around.

And I do feel it is worth both coaches always checking they each have the right number of players on the field.

I stand by the decision taken (in consultation with Tom and another experienced TO) and I can totally see that it might not seem quite enough.

I do not think for one second that it was anything other than an honest mistake by Jim (side note, Ive done it myself twice, in consecutive ARBBLs, against the SAME opponent!)

I would like to offer Dr Death free entry to the ACC next year as a gesture that encourages him to come and win it next year.

I'd also like for this to be a line drawn under the issue, and encourage TOs to reflect privately on what they personally would do in all manner of situations that happen in a tournament.

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by DrDeath »

Block there’s absolutely no need for that – I totally respect the decision you guys made given the time constraints late in Game 3. Did then, still do. Hell I don’t know how you put on such great tourneys so cheaply anyway, so if you say that I feel bad for posting! Boba, really please accept it is not sour grapes, I’m certainly not claiming I should have won. In fact I was very lucky to beat Lycos and Itchen and was delighted to come 3rd. Was pretty annoyed on returning home to hear the 12 man error against me was compounded by a mistaken NAF rules quote by my opponent, but honestly I still wouldn’t have bothered posting if it hadn’t:

i) also affected other coaches unfairly in my opinion;
ii) raised an issue on what happens in such circumstances – it’s obvious some coaches are not familiar with the NAF rule.

I understand these kinds of mistakes do happen, in my opinion it’s how you act to make up for them that counts. That ethic is I believe reflected in the NAF rules quote I gave. It doesn't help that it's rather ambiguous. I’ve made a couple of TV mistakes in the past in Tabletop tourneys or leagues, but have always either conceded the game, offered a rematch or given something in return. For example in my first TT tourney – the Welsh Open 2015 – I accidentally miscalculated the skills system which effectively gave my team a 20k advantage over everyone else. Innocent mistake, but when I realised at the end and won the Most TDs prize, I declined it and it was awarded to someone else.

At the end of the day I guess it depends on your definition of sportsmanship whether you take advantage of a mistake and just offer an apology, or offer some kind of in-game concession to make up for it. Those are murky waters I guess, I have an opinion but that doesn't mean I'm right and there isn't much to be gained by starting a bloody great flame thread!

Besters – I do appreciate your apology, as I did immediately after the game, and I know it was an honest mistake. Congratulations on the title, you are an excellent coach and certainly played well. I look forward to playing you again, and when we do I’m sure it will be a fun game. At the end of the day, it is a rather silly game, meant to be played for fun. And Block, it was a great tournament ;)

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by besters »

"was compounded by a mistaken NAF rules quote by my opponent"

I didn't make any NAF rules quote, as far as I am aware there aren't any. I told you what I understood to be standard practise at tournaments regarding this situation, something I believe was confirmed by the ruling.

I believe the onus is on both players to check the numbers on the pitch, something obviously neither of us did. But I played what I think is pretty much an agreed process, if I thought the norm was something different I would follow that.

It was disappointing this has ruined what could have been a good game, but the dice did that anyway. If it is any consolation it also ruined for me the remainder of the tournament.

Thanks for your last comments, I would agree, let's hope we can play again and enjoy a good re-match.

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by Twelfman »

Blocknroll wrote:I'd also like for this to be a line drawn under the issue

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by Darkson »

[Mod hat on] If people want to further discuss this I can separate the posts out into its own thread, but not until I regain access via a PC (not attempting it on a phone!).

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Re: Albion Coast Cup XII Southampton August 27/28th

Post by 20phoenix »

In game 2 I did the opposite and fielded ten players on my drive, only realising when I couldn't find my other Wight when assessing blitzing options!

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