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Hard6 Superbowl I - and why not NAF?
http://talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43495
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Author:  Darkson [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

I wasn't "slapping him down", and I didn't make the rules, but as Sann said on P.1, it wouldn't have been sanctioned due to the date clash:

Sann: Not NAF, ARBBL clash.
Joe: Also not allowing all 24.
Sann: True, but it didn't get that far :)

Even if HadrielCaine allowed the Slann team (which I strongly recommend by the way) it still wouldn't get sanctioned.

It is unfortunate he choose the same date as mine, but he's not the first (for example, Lemf added Snotbowl(?) to the calendar without checking to see if it clashed with anything, meaning I either made ARBBL non-NAF, didn't run it or moved it [to Feb]) and I doubt he'd be the last.
Unfortunately, checking the calendar for potential clashes is not always the first thing on an organisers mind, and some won't know where to look in the first place. And the UK calendar is very full.

As I said above, I wish him every success, and hopefully if he runs it again next year it won't clash with mine or anyone elses (as it is, with the changes made I would have been interested if not for the obvious reason, as I can get to London without needing a car or lift).

Author:  Heff [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

Said "we" not "you" deliberately. Sometimes even l think about what l say.

As a community we have taken this guys enthusiasm and and organisational committment and slapped him.

If l were involved l would be offering support short of recognition. I would also provide a prize and information.
As it is l would not be surprised if he told us to go into a corner and do something biologically unfeasable to ourselves.

Author:  Heff [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

...and the old Heff is back :lol:

Author:  Wulfyn [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

How is arbbl considered close proximity to this event? Fair enough on not allowing it due to not having all 24 races (although I think they are making a great decision in restricting the races to those in the new rules to help encourage new players into the hobby), but just because someone who might attend both is going doesn't mean it is a clash. A couple years ago Bunker Bowl, Dungeonbowl, and Lutece were all on the same weekend and there was no problem despite many people having to pick one over the other when ideally they would have attended all of them.

I don't think you have fully thought this through sann. We need to be doing everything we can to encourage these guys returning to the hobby long term. Saying you can't be approved because of some event 80 miles away is not going to cut it.

Author:  glowworm [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

Heff wrote:

We should be supporting this guy not slapping him down for daring to choose the same day as you. I am pretty sure there is space for both.


This.....

More tournaments = good thing.

Author:  sann0638 [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

Wulfyn wrote:
I don't think you have fully thought this through sann.


You're right, it's not my rule! :D

Author:  glowworm [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

sann0638 wrote:
Wulfyn wrote:
I don't think you have fully thought this through sann.


You're right, it's not my rule! :D


Your in charge, so your responsible for every evil your evil empire commits, your in bed with GW as well I'll wager!!

Seriously tho' the rule on tournaments may need looking at, in the U.S. Or Aus the distances are so vast it won't make a difference, however in the UK we could probably reduce the distance and still fill the tournaments, we are saturated with tournaments.....just sayin'

Author:  Wulfyn [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

sann0638 wrote:
Wulfyn wrote:
I don't think you have fully thought this through sann.


You're right, it's not my rule! :D


rabble rabble rabble ;-)

Get on it pres! I hope we are going to see a lot more people pick up the game and really give the UK scene and extra boost. We should be thinking about how to bring these guys in, and if that means a moratorium on sanctioning events for a year or so to get them up and running I think it is worth it. The idea of restricting races to just those in the new ruleset so that new players are not overwhelmed seems not only a legitimate concern but actually a really intelligent solution.

Author:  sann0638 [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I - and why not NAF?

Taken on board.

Author:  frogboy [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I- 11th Feb 2017, London

glowworm wrote:
Heff wrote:

We should be supporting this guy not slapping him down for daring to choose the same day as you. I am pretty sure there is space for both.


This.....

More tournaments = good thing.


Some people just need a good slap!

80 miles might not be a big issue in around Landon but for me and my event overlapping events could kill it.

I tried organing my event early on and now with 6 months to go it's already surrounded by other events. Maybe the NAF can limit events it hands trophy's out to instead. With sanctioning for other events on a basis similar to it has already, two tables or two leagues maybe one for the pros one for the Confrence possibly? It would be nice to get some discussion in a different thread probably.

Author:  hawca [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I - and why not NAF?

Ok to clear something up.
Sann is the NAF President. Not a NTO or Tournement Director.
He has little no no sayings on sanctioning events.

Next. Nate (Gaxio) is the TD and only one who can sanction an event.
I am the UKNTO and Nate will often run past me conflicts.

If they are too close I will advise not to sanction. 80 miles is an hour and half to two hours.

There are guidelines to follow for sanctioning. They need to be followed. Or else we would have a mess of a tournement calender.

By simple fact that not all races are included means the date and distance is irrelevant.

The NAF and there vollenteer staff work hard to maintain the status quo. And the negativity displayed does little to help.

If people are unsure the other option is contact your local RTO or NTO and they will help so you do not run the risk of your event not being sanctioned. That's also in the guidelines.

Running an event does not give you the right to sanctioning. Meeting the guidelines does.

Good luck with your events and if you need or want help please contact myself or any other staff.

Author:  gumbi [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I - and why not NAF?

Thanks for all of the work that the NAF guys do. It is a great organisation but in this case I think you should re-consider the position with an interim model to help support these tournaments & grow the NAF membership base.

Despite a healthy number of leagues in central London there are hardly any tournaments, especially 1 day events. I think you are underestimating the difference between a 2 day event hours away requiring accommodation & a NEW 1 dayer in a massive population centre. Our league will be strongly represented at this because it is easily accessible.

The all-races rule does not encourage new players who have been recently introduced to the game by GW. Does this really make such a big difference in the short term if there was a clear policy around it? I don't think it is as disruptive to stats as the various skills packs and special star players already being used.

I am sympathetic to the ARBBL guys, particularly as they moved their dates to find a free weekend, but I dont think you will see your numbers reduce due to this - look at the people registered, most are AoS players giving it a try, or occasional tournament players.

Author:  Bsking [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I - and why not NAF?

hawca wrote:
By simple fact that not all races are included means the date and distance is irrelevant.
OK, I've read through your sanctioning rules, and hypothetically if Slann were allowed in Tier -1 all by themselves, which is given 660K to build a team, and no skills throughout the entire tournament, the event should be sanctionable then, as it would then meet the quantifiable guidelines set out?

I'm not suggesting this is a good idea, but rather that there is always an element of discretion given to the NTO's to use a small amount of intelligence when making decisions. Given that discretion clearly is capable of being used, do you not think that there needs to be flexibility shown to people who are trying to do something positive for the community, even if it doesn't strictly meet the rules as laid down by the NAF?

Author:  Darkson [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I - and why not NAF?

gumbi wrote:
Our league will be strongly represented at this because it is easily accessible.


Quote:
but I dont think you will see your numbers reduce due to this


Given that last year, your league had 4 players out of 28*, and other years we've had more (and less), then your two statements don't gel. That's not counting players that are closer to London than us that might decide not to travel that extra distance.

I sympathise with the Hard6 guys, and I sympathise with London players not having more tournaments (though I say if you feel you don't have enough, organise some).

But if London to Andover isn't "close proximity" than I'd argue that I could have stayed on the same date as Snot Bowl - sure, it's closer to me than London but it's a lot easier to get from London to Andover than it is to get from Andover to the IOW.


* Might have been others, not sure on some people's league allegiance.

Author:  Jip [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard6 Superbowl I - and why not NAF?

I've only been to three tournaments (CakeBowl, Gertbowl and The Elflympic Games), so far, but I'm really glad the vibe at those tournaments didn't match the vibe on some of these threads. Whether passive-aggressively, or directly, challenging organisers, it really misrepresents the community to newcomers - like me.

As a new player, I bet there are some other new folk that shy away from a tournament because of comments on its thread (often by people not even intending to attend it, anyway), because they expect players at the event to have that same attitude on the day.

The real sad thing is, for me, the reality couldn't be further from the truth. My experience at tournaments has been impeccable, other than Glowworm shouting at me for how long I allegedly take to finish a game. if I'd gone by the threads organising them as an indicator though, I'm not 100% I'd have attended them to experience that. If little Jimmy (why are they always called Jimmy? Why does little Barnaby never do anything?) read conversations like the Elflympics or QuidditchBowl threads, he'd probably put his new humans back in the box.

It must be a thankless task working for NAF and organising tournaments, fair play and good luck to anyone that attempts to do either or, for those crazy enough, both! :lol:

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