Brucebowl - The Draft - 22nd April 2023 - Portsmouth

[Spiky]

I'll echo other people's sentiments. A tournament that encourages toplessness is not an inclusive tournament. I'm disappointed with the NAF for sanctioning this.

[deeferdan]

Further support for those questioning the sanctioning of this event here… This is not representative of the NAF’s CoC of the BB community I want to be part of.

[Sharky]

I don't see the problem here. It's a bit of fun and the rules pack clearly states you do not need to be topless just remove the top layer, wear a vest, a shirt with a T underneath. If you come across a player that does have there top off feel free to tell them you would prefer them to wear one and they WILL put it on. Yes I am part of Brucebowl. If the event makes you uncomfortable simply do not attend this event.

[Danny]

I don't see the problem here. It's a bit of fun and the rules pack clearly states you do not need to be topless just remove the top layer, wear a vest, a shirt with a T underneath. If you come across a player that does have there top off feel free to tell them you would prefer them to wear one and they WILL put it on. Yes I am part of Brucebowl. If the event makes you uncomfortable simply do not attend this event.

Underneath what? How are you topless if you’re wearing a tshirt? Your mental gymnastics make no sense.

[Sharky]

Did you even read the rule, I would go back and read it again before dishing out insults.

[Danny]

Yes I read it. Questions still stand, it makes no sense. The fact you’ve submitted one rule to the NAF to get it approved and another in the rule pack just sounds like a disingenuous loophole.

[Duffins]

I don't see the problem here. It's a bit of fun and the rules pack clearly states you do not need to be topless just remove the top layer, wear a vest, a shirt with a T underneath. If you come across a player that does have there top off feel free to tell them you would prefer them to wear one and they WILL put it on. Yes I am part of Brucebowl. If the event makes you uncomfortable simply do not attend this event.

So if I didn't want to play against a topless opponent, I'd have to ruin their fun, as it were, by asking them to put a shirt on? I'd quickly be known as 'that person' who's come here and is not in the supposed spirit of the event.

Enough from me. We should listen to the women who play blood bowl who have already written in this thread. Their misgivings seem to often be ignored.

[landrover]

It’s been set back to Pending on the NAF site tournament listings. I hope it stays that way.

+1

If kids turn up, taking your tops off is appropriate? Grow up.

[Beard]

I'm all for fun, but I'm also all for inclusivity - T3 events have a welsh twist for that reason, keeps us a bit different on the welsh tour circuit, without making people feel uncomfortable while yet being fun

People should be able to enjoy playing without feeling uncomfortable - as a number of people have said they feel uncomfortable with your rules, not just women, you may want to consider your rules set

Someone replying and saying "if you're not comfortable, don't attend", does nothing to endear you to the community and even shows a pig-headedness to stand by your error rather than change - not only are you alienating a community from wanting to come to you, you'll also have people not wanting you to attend their events either

[Bögenhafen Bron]

so in summary:

- topless local league, not a problem. Everybody there has agreed to an unspoken social contract, and the social circle is small enough that no transgressions are perceived. Facebook Posts are tutted at or taken to one's bunk at a safe distance.

- topless, openly advertised tournament, problematic for reasons eloquently explored above. While it may not quite be the debauchery that is Orgybowl(tm)*, it highlights how important clothes are as part of our body autonomy.

I'm not sure how I'd feel if someone asked me to Ohgawd Put That Shirt Back On You Flabby Sweaty Monstrosity, and thankfully I have a hairy-torso tshirt and a skin coloured morphsuit for just such occasions that have been utilised in the Most Thrudlike competitions, so let's err on the side of decency.

Pity, cuz I'd really like to experience Brucebowl one day.



*There is no Orgybowl. If there is, apparently you've never been invited. Let that sink in. No, not in that way. Shucks, you're irredeemable. The password at the door is "Admrya Goblet Presents."

[Purplegoo]

Just to stick up for the NAF tournament approvals team for a moment, Stimme's recent blog post shows that the excellent Driesfield remains our approver and he's also covering France, Belgium and the Netherlands. That is a non-trivial workload and he is a non-native English speaking staff member. It's easy to miss something like this at first glance, but it would seem from the above posts that this tournament has now been noted and there's a dialogue going on.

I don't know any more than what I've read here, but I am clearly missing some nuance, because I can't see how anyone could think this is a good idea. If you are referencing an in-joke or long-observed but now out-dated tradition, have the TO take his coat off (to reveal a hoodie, or whatever) before play as a ceremonial nod to the gimmick and give everyone a re-roll. Job done.

[spleggy]

Yes I read it. Questions still stand, it makes no sense. The fact you’ve submitted one rule to the NAF to get it approved and another in the rule pack just sounds like a disingenuous loophole.

Agreed, essentially sanctioning this tournament in its current form was/would be mistake. The use of different phrasings on the NAF site and in the rulespack served to muddy the water on the actual intent of the TO which along with the reasons Purplegoo alludes to above meant it was briefly approved on the site. I can assure you that this prompted some upset among the UK Tournament coordinators group, we escalated via Stimme who took the necessary action and unapproved it on the site.

It's my hope and understanding that it won't be reapproved in it's current form.

[lgmdaniel]

At the beginning of the week, I had an email to confirm the feed back and I adjusted the rules pack after myself and Wayne replied back. I haven't touched the NAF page as I haven't had confirmation of what is happening yet. Just this back on forth on the TFF. As such I'm trying to sort things so that people are happy.

[lgmdaniel]

We all know what Bruce Bowl is. It’s topless drunk guys. Bullshit on pretending it’s anything else. We have enough going on anyway that isn’t making women feel welcome without tournaments and rulesets like this.

So 'Bull$h!t' is just fine, but the sight of a few people having some drinks is not fun. Living on the south coast and going the park, or beach I've seen people all the time in various different outfits.
Would there still be all this objection if we had some gazebos on at the beach, and people are wandering about in and out of the sea. Or even if we were at the building next to the beach and you could seen peoples bodies. My word how prudish is everyone one here, lets go back to the 1900s and make sure we have as many layers on as possible. As for children, my kids have never been bothered by the sight of a human.
As a person who stands up for all rights, this who conversation has gone from 1 to hundred, before I even knew it, and is causing me know end of anxiety. I expected to need to change the wording of the event a bit and it would need tuning, but now even us having some games of Blood Bowl and some beers is being questioned. Not all of us drink either, because of choice, work, or other reasons.
I don't attend Waterbowl because last time it was a sweaty, cramped, and the body odour was not pleasant. That seems more like a reason for people not to go than this, male, female or non-binary, no ones going to enjoy that. So yes please, lets jump on a small group people at a church hall.

[lgmdaniel]

I would like a follow up email from someone to confirm what is going on with this, as I've not had a reply since Sat.