Stars in Tournies (was Chaos Cup)

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat May 24, 2003 11:15 pm

I hope the one star player only rule isn't going to in use at next year's BB. Maybe I was hearing things, but I'm sure the "Do you want Star players" got a resounding "NO!" on the Sunday.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun May 25, 2003 1:44 am

Darkson wrote:I hope the one star player only rule isn't going to in use at next year's BB. Maybe I was hearing things, but I'm sure the "Do you want Star players" got a resounding "NO!" on the Sunday.

See I'd like to allow the stars but make them cost you to use them.

I think the formula of player cost+(price over 100k if any) and the inability to use team rerolls is the way to go for stars.

I could be wrong, but if it works well at the end of July, I'm definitely going to recommend that Andy Hall try it for next year's Blood Bowl.

Galak

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun May 25, 2003 1:46 am

please don't galak, if you aren't going to be there rather you didn't affect it for the rest of us ;]

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Sun May 25, 2003 3:21 am

But if he sees it in action and he thinks it works then he should report it to Andy. Any alternative suggestion should be looked at.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun May 25, 2003 3:33 am

having played in a few NAF tournaments now the ones without any star players were better, the star players affect the balence of all the teams cause you are using rookie teams which just exaggerates how good the star players are (well some of them) all the teams with griff on did well at the blood bowl and well that goes for luthor and hthark as well

just limiting them to 1 won't solve the problem and making them more expensive imho still won't

the races are balenced well as the are and the tournaments are better like that, rather than the same races doing better than the others cause their star players are better

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sun May 25, 2003 5:34 am

Galak-

That link is a 404 Error.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sun May 25, 2003 5:38 am

Galak wrote:I think the formula of player cost+(price over 100k if any) and the inability to use team rerolls is the way to go for stars.

When I saw that I thought, "yeah, that's the way to go!"
It allows the stars into the tourney but it takes away the no brainer option. Personnally, If I make it to the Chaos Cup I'll be bringing Count Luthor without a second thought But if I was going to Gen Con I'd have to do a lot of homework to make that decision!

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Sun May 25, 2003 6:06 am

Remember, if you go up against a team with the same Star as you, neither of you get to use him (at least that's the way it was at the BB).

I took Lord Borak at the BB (obviously). Great choice of you are playing Chaos.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun May 25, 2003 12:51 pm

Grumbledook wrote:please don't galak, if you aren't going to be there rather you didn't affect it for the rest of us ;]

Grumble ...

If I understand correctly, Tim took direction from Andy for the Chaos Cup and the result is the one star limitation.

If the GenCon Bowl star change works well wouldn't you rather I report this to Andy than have him think limiting to one star player works? The whole reason I was going to tell Andy the results was because I'm pretty sure that Andy is not ready to remove Stars from the Blood Bowl ... the Chaos Cup ruling definitely lends crediance to this. Especially since many months ago, I emailed Tim about the star dislike at the Blood Bowl and told him he should talk to Andy to see if the rules should be changed from the Blood Bowl for the Chaos Cup ... and look what was changed ..... So that's why. Of course, I could just keep my mouth shut like you asked and you all can play against single star Griff teams next year, sorry to interfere.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun May 25, 2003 1:01 pm

Anthony_TBBF wrote:I took Lord Borak at the BB (obviously). Great choice of you are playing Chaos.

Borak is a great example of the difference:

160k ... You get a free reroll so in effect he costs only 90k to the team which means you get a hyped up Chaos Warrior for a 10k discount. Borak to me is a complete no-brainer for a Chaos team for the Chaos Cup format.

220k ... Okay Borak costs 150k after the Leader discount so at least he's no longer a discounted Chaos Warrior. Removing the ability to use rerolls even Leader ones means he has some liability to bring as well.

Okay ... I'm going to stop discussing this here as this is Tim's thread for the Con. But since Dark Lord has a question about the Chaos Cup rules and TBB has been going on at length about Star Players at the Blood Bowl, I wanted to point out that that problem is still going to be present at the Chaos Cup and you all need to take that into consideration for planning your team strategy and roster.

I agree with Anthony, Dirty Player is looking like a pretty good first round skill choice to help eliminate the Griff, Zug, and Luthor factors.

Tim is trying to make sure that the Chaos Cup is a great tournament and I look forward to getting the reports back from everyone that goes.

Galak

Oh Dark Lord ... do the following to find the rules for the Chaos Cup:
Go to bloodbowl.com
Click on Resources
The top download item, Blood Bowl Rules Pack, is the rules for the Blood Bowl. Use these rules with the one change that you are only allowed one star player per a team.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun May 25, 2003 1:24 pm

that wasn't my intention ;]

I would rather he just listened to all the people who played there and said they would rather there wasn't any star players

if there are going to be (which i unfortunatly suspect there will) then your method is the best so far (bar getting rid of them) my points was that giving him reasons to keep them is bad, sorry if i came off a bit short (no jokes please)

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun May 25, 2003 11:37 pm

Okay ... I'll be curious what the response from GenCon is. I really don't think Stars are a problem if they cost what they are worth, and I think they add flavor.

I think the response from the Blood Bowl comes from the fact that the player cost formula divides costs above 100 by 2. For instance, run an Ogre through the cost formula and you get 140k. But because of the 100k rule, we divide the extra by 2 and get 120k. Same is true for the Wardancer.

So when you start talking about someone like Griff ... you comes out on the cost formula for 270k!!! and you let a team have him for 180 ... well I understand completely the screams from the gallery.

Chet Z. is the one that suggested the GenCon system (double price over 100k to get the true player contribution cost) and remove team reroll ability as they are ringers .... (footnote this might happen in the October rule review also ... ie Freebooted stars cannot use team rerolls).

So I don't think Stars are leaving the tournament circuit ... if that is the case ... I think we need to find a way that they get put on teams at real value. Again if after GenCon ... I see Star Players everywhere and no one likes them ... I'll probably be the first in line to say Ban Stars.

Galak

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun May 25, 2003 11:54 pm

I agree they prob won't be removed and griff costin 270 and no reroll use will help

but if they are staying there should be more stars with greater choices for the teams who have sod all to go with

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon May 26, 2003 12:02 am

Grumbledook wrote:I agree they prob won't be removed and griff costin 270 and no reroll use will help

but if they are staying there should be more stars with greater choices for the teams who have sod all to go with

Well said Grumbledook.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:26 pm

Darkson wrote:
Grumbledook wrote:I agree they prob won't be removed and griff costin 270 and no reroll use will help

but if they are staying there should be more stars with greater choices for the teams who have sod all to go with
Well said Grumbledook.

I'll agree with this as well. I think the new Human/Amazon star is a good step in this direction. I'm allowing Thrud in the GenCon Bowl at 100k so every team has a Star Player option ... not saying its a good option ... but its an option ...

Again sorry Tim that we all ended up highjacking this thread to continue the Star Player debate/discussion.

Galak